NOT a very smart move for PCGS, imho.......
Bustman
Posts: 1,911 ✭
At the risk of being banned, I have to say I was absolutely stunned to read PCGS's full page ad entitled "To all Buyers of Certified Coins...." in the April 13th issue of Numismatic News. I think PCGS has done a lot of good for the hobby, but this shows terribly poor judgement.
For those of you who have not seen it, the add talks about the PNG endorsement PGCS recently lost to NGC.
The ad starts off in bold letters.... "There's something you should know about "Official Grading Service" endorsements"... and continues on about how PCGS was the official grading service for the past 5 years at a cost of $40,000 per year. They lost it this year to NGC, who bid $544,000 to be the "official grading service of PNG" for the next three years.
NOW that NGC is the "official grading service", PCGS decides it needs to come clean about the PNG endorsement being a paid endorsement, and how any grading company can bid for the endorsement.
Why didn't PCGS take out a full page ad while they had the endorsement?? Can you say, sore loser??
I still can't believe an executive at PCGS was able to get this ad approved. It really shows incredibly poor taste, imho.
For those of you who have not seen it, the add talks about the PNG endorsement PGCS recently lost to NGC.
The ad starts off in bold letters.... "There's something you should know about "Official Grading Service" endorsements"... and continues on about how PCGS was the official grading service for the past 5 years at a cost of $40,000 per year. They lost it this year to NGC, who bid $544,000 to be the "official grading service of PNG" for the next three years.
NOW that NGC is the "official grading service", PCGS decides it needs to come clean about the PNG endorsement being a paid endorsement, and how any grading company can bid for the endorsement.
Why didn't PCGS take out a full page ad while they had the endorsement?? Can you say, sore loser??
I still can't believe an executive at PCGS was able to get this ad approved. It really shows incredibly poor taste, imho.
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Actually, PNG should be feeling some egg on their face.... we'll endorse whoever pays the most vs who we think is best.
Now PCGS will have to change that little hologram on the reverse of their slabs. That will probably be a headache.
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Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>On one hand I agree with you but on the other I am wondering if there could be something unsaid about the "great divide" between what PCGS was paying (120k) versus NGC (544k) for 3 years >>
Gilbert, while PCGS was paying $120,000 over the previous three years, their losing bid in this instance was supposedly a bit over $500,000, not really a "great divide" (edited to add: between them and NGC for the current contract).
How dare they !
Bit by bit, the distance between PCGS and NGC narrows !
Who cares ????
Obviously, somebody does!!!
Full page ads.
What a waste of money and ESTEEM !
I would agree with that except for the fact that it was a big deal to PCGS when they were the "OGS". My problem with this is now that they are not the "OGS", they feel the need to point out what a scam the whole thing is.
Would seeing this little endorsment change your mind about buying a coin or would the coin itself?
Just my 2 cents
Tbig
PS I saw an ad in Coin World from some dealer only buying NGC Graded Coins! What is that all about!
"NGC is stupid for paying for a meaningless endorsement."
"Well, yeah, we used to pay for meaningless endorsements too, but, uh..."
The whole situation is ridiculous and left PNG, NGC, and PCGS in embarassing positions. Although I still think it's funny when DH's original comment on the matter said something to the effect of NGC being the official grading company of the Home Shopping Network
for 5 years, apparantly in a satisfactory manner. They had significantly increased there
offer of payment and all off a sudden, NGC comes up with a magical amount just a little
bit more. There must be a suspicion of hanky panky and a bit of anger at the lack of some
degree of loyalty to a long term arrangement. All in all, I believe that the management of PCGS has a
to feel a little out of sorts. As for the ad, well we each respond to anger and dissappointment each
in our own way.
Camelot
Makes me wonder who is over marketing and advertising. Worse, who higher up approved this disaster.
Got quoins?
I totally agree with you!
Coulport:
I strongly suspect that the person behind this ad -- and its author -- was Mr. Hall.
Assuming that Hall geniunely felt that the whole matter of the OGS is just a marketing ploy and carries with it no substance to the quality of the grading services, then why is he calling more attention to such a supposed inconsequential event?
If you want to render an event truly inconsequential, then stop mentioning it. It's similar to that axiom in business that you should never give bad press to your competition because even "bad press" is still press of sorts.
If Mr. Hall had left well enough alone, then over time the market will decide how consequential the OGS endorsement really is. If the market still commands top dollar for coins slabbed by PCGS, then so be it. If not, then I would suggest that PCGS do more introspection than otherwise.
I don't know if these comments by Mr. Hall here and in the trade rags were calculated moves or emotional responses. If the latter, then I hope someone who actually cares about him would advise him to question the wisdom of a prominent industry figure making public emotional outbursts.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Maybe, but why should anyone care? Seriously.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
no, i mean, who REALLY came up w/ it.
were we the collecting community supposed to actually learn something from it?
K S
<< <i>This is the dumbest argument I have recently heard. PCGS should be happy that they forced NGC into paying a huge amount for a worthless endorsement that no serious collector or dealer cares about. Mr. Hall here is a free bit of business advice for you. Use all that money you saved and come up with a PCGS blue label slab to slab all those coins you body bag that have small problems i.e. scratches, dipping etc. Don’t do like NGC and body bag the coins with little blue tags that say for an additional fee we can put these in one of our other slabs, just put them in the blue slabbed holder. You will make all of your customers very happy, and you will take business from NGC and ANNACS. You are concerned over nothing. If it was so easy to knock you out of the top spot any millionaire could just buy all the endorsements, open a certifying company and drive you out. >>
This has been brought up with PCGS many, many times and every time there is no support from PCGS's customer base to holder problem coins. I wish they would do it, but I am in the very small minority on the issue.
<< <i>I saw the same ad and must agree. Great when I was it, but someone paid more and I gonna tell everyone it doesn't mean anything.
Actually, PNG should be feeling some egg on their face.... we'll endorse whoever pays the most vs who we think is best. >>
I kinda agree with above in that PNG's endorsement should go to who they feel deserves the endorsement , not to who pays the most money. I won't go into to PCGS's response to it.
.....will PNG filter down ...the membership ie ....members actually using NGC over PCGS now?
I agree!
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If people like particular coins slabbed by PCGS, they will buy them, period. All this does, unfortunately, IMO, is make David Hall look like a crybaby, and he really doesn't need this.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
PCGS competed for the endorsement, and lost. Presumably, PCGS felt the endorsement had some value. To turn around and criticize the process may depress the price paid for future endorsements, or it may just discourage others from working with PCGS.
Dealers and experienced collectors know an endorsement has nothing to do with the quality of the service. It's new collectors who will consider it meaningful.
Maybe loss of the PNG contract hurts PCGS efforts to reach new collectors. Or maybe PCGS thought PNG was evaluating bidders on the basis of quality and money, and was hurt to find out it was only about the money.
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<< <i>NOT a very smart move for PCGS
Maybe, but why should anyone care? Seriously. >>
I'll agree with Andy on this...Why should anyone on this board who is not an NGC /PCGS employee really care?
Only reason I can see is that someone just wants to whine about something.
As a collector and hobbyist, I could care less. I find it interesting but I am not going to whine about it. I have more important things in life to get my undies knotted up about.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
If PCGS didn't make such a big deal about this it would have quickly slipped into the past & been forgotten. I don't think anyone
really cares about the endorsement. I'll bet the PNG endorsement never resulted in the purchase of even one PCGS slabbed coin.
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I could see NGC advertising that the png now favors ngc over pcgs without mentioning the reason.
That makes sense but in reality does the endorsement really mean anything to the consumers?
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<< <i>That makes sense but in reality does the endorsement really mean anything to the consumers? >>
Believe it or not, there are actually naive (don't want to say stupid) people out there who actually take endorsements very seriously, we all know it.
Definitely thumbs down for PCGS, or whoever approved the ad.
Posted by NGC at 3/22/04 3:51:45 PM
Endorsement Added to that of the ANA
Numismatic Guaranty Corporation is pleased to announce that it has been named by the Professional Numismatists Guild as its Official Grading Service. This agreement becomes effective April 15, 2004.
The PNG is a nonprofit organization composed of the world's top rare coin and paper money experts. As numismatic professionals, their primary mission is to make the hobby safe for collectors and investors by maintaining rigid standards of excellence for their member dealers. The average PNG dealer has more than 25 years of experience.
“This is a win-win arrangement for both our members and NGC’s customers,” said PNG Executive Director Robert Brueggeman. “NGC has demonstrated that it shares the PNG’s commitment to serving the coin industry through its sustained level of integrity and consistency.”
NGC was named the Official Grading Service of the American Numismatic Association in 1995. The addition of the PNG’s endorsement gives it a stamp of approval from the two most recognized and respected organizations in the rare coin hobby, representing both the collector and dealer communities.
“I’m really thrilled that the PNG is recognizing NGC’s superior service by naming it the Guild’s Official Grading Service,” observed Mark Salzberg, Chairman and CEO of NGC. “PNG members are the most honorable and professional figures in the coin business, and NGC is pleased to be associated with them.”
<< <i>The PNG is a nonprofit organization >>
$544,000. Hmmmmm........
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Trucks with huge loudspeakers went through the towns from 6 AM to midnight, saying how wonderful a particular party's candidate was. If you believed 1/10 of it all, you'd think the guy (or woman) walked on water.
The pitch typically went...if you voted for such a person, a hospital would be built on your street, your child would attend the best university in Brasil, and your sex life would improve. Blah, blah, blah.
I think how our hobby is presented to the public is more similar to not than the Brasilian elections I described.
I'm not up to speed on the latest events re the PNG, but didn't Alan Hager contribute a substantial sum to this organization recently? How much did he contribute, how much did Mark Salzman contribute, and how much did David Hall contribute? Just curious.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>The newspaper worked for him once when he was advertising for a wife. >>
Russ, NCNE
Start lining up.....
ANACS is pleased to announce that we have secured yet another year of being the official "net' grading service. We ....almost.....had to pay PCGS & NGC more than last year for this exclusive right, but they were distracted by other matters and our negotiations were successful.
Please be assured that for at least one more year, we will be the company that informatively slabs ALL coins as our customers have come to depend on.
Both people and corporations make good and bad decisions every day, it's no big deal really. I also agree that the PNG endorsement is pretty meaningless at any cost.
dragon
<< <i>I agree with MrEureka.......who really cares if PCGS used good judgement, bad judgement, good taste, bad taste, or whatever.
Both people and corporations make good and bad decisions every day, it's no big deal really. I also agree that the PNG endorsement is pretty meaningless at any cost.
dragon >>
One person who cared was the person who took out the ad to whine about it. Other than that probably no one.
dbldie,
This is really to bad, and I would not suggest that all coins need to be slabbed, but there is no reason that many of the older rarer coins i.e. Bust dollars, Bust halves, early gold, chain cents etc. etc. should always find their way into annacs slabs. There is also one other thing that should be of most importance to Mr. Hall in all of this, and that is how these dollars might better be used to produce revenue for his shareholders. Mr. Salzberg can afford to pay for all the $544,000 endorsements he likes. It is his money and if he wants to waste it so he can have a good laugh at the country club that’s up to him.
Mr. Hall on the other hand needs to continue to generate more revenues to move his stock price. In the coming months many of the companies who’s shares are trading in the open market at very high PE ratio’s in regards to their potential growth are going to have severe stock price declines. Interest rates moving up and investors will once again have a wider variety of investment choices. Only those companies that show consistent revenue growth will enjoy inflated stock values. I am not enough of an insider to know what the PNG slab sales will cost PCGS but it would be interesting to know how much revenue annacs makes each year slabbing coins that have a note about dipping, scratches, etc. Certainly Mr. Hall could take lots of business away from NGC and ANNACS with this simple plan, and then he could have a good laugh at the country club.