What does it take to become "king of the hill?"

gemtone65

Suppose your objective was to form the most eye appealing accumulation of pieces from a particular series (e.g., Morgan dollars) with certain defined characteristics (e.g., non-proof, gem toned items). For you, grade of the coin is simply a component of eye appeal. You are willing to acquire multiple pieces of the same date, have no great interest in acquiring all different dates, and you have little inclination to play the Registry game.

Given the scarcity of such top tier pieces and the relatively high market prices needed to acquire them, how much of a budget would you need and how many pieces would you be able to acquire over the course of a typical year? You can define any series or subseries you are interested in.

In the case of gem toned Morgan dollars, for example, I would guess that if I went to 1 important show a month, followed all the major auctions, and checked E-bay and internet web sites continuously, I could locate perhaps, on average, 4-8 such coins a month, and be able to purchase at fair value 3-6 of them. Given an estimate of the market price per coin, I would say that for one year I could be King of this hill, or at least a Prince, for an annual budget of no more than $100,000.

How about for your favorite area of collecting? What would it take to afford the best looking pieces, and how many could you expect to locate and acquire in a year?

jbsteven

<< <i>Given an estimate of the market price per coin, I would say that for one year I could be King of this hill, or at least a Prince, for an annual budget of no more than $100,000. >>



I think it would be tough to knock GSAGUY out of his throne.


depends on what your criteria is for monster Morgans. I go to 1 national show a month and attend the auctions and can say 4-8 monster a month would be a stretch. This whole debate would revolve around your definition of monster. Can you post a pic of a monster to define this discussion.

edited to add:

I think your budget of 100k is realistic IF you can find the coins.

Dennis88

mgoodm3

If you spend enough money and you can be king of whatever you want.

Deadhorse

<< <i>If you spend enough money and you can be king of whatever you want. >>



Oh yeah? You might ask Al Gore about that.

mgoodm3

Al obviously didn't spend enough money. he only got to be king of the fat, washed-up politicians.

gemtone65

JB: I didn't use the term "monster." The very best coins in a particular series and category might not include many monsters. I'm simply saying that in this hypothetical you are seeking to acquire coins that are befitting the very best collection of its type. You don't think that all of the coins in GSAGuy's collection are monsters, do you? Well, perhaps in his case they may well be.

I was trying to avoid the distraction of actually defining a monster coin. I suspect we all have a slightly different perspective on this. If you PM me with your e-mail address, I would be happy to send you scans of some of the pieces I own which I consider to be monsters. Then, you could let me know if you agree. In those cases, if you're so inclined, you are welcome to post those coins here as examples of monsters that we agree on.

northcoin

I believe an ad in Coin World should do it. (Or was that "King of Cash?")

michael

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

BigE

I think it takes patience and getting in with the people who specialize in a certain series and spending time at shows. No wonder I will never be on top-----------BigE

RegistryCoin

ok, say you have the $$$$$$. Then what does it take?

coinguy1

It takes coin knowledge, $, willing owners/sellers (not everyone is motivated by $), patience, and connections to and relationships with the right sources who can/will provide you with the opportunity to acquire the right coins.

If you don't have ALL of these things, your efforts are sure to fall short.

michael

interesting thought registry coin

after i put $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ i then wrote

"and even moreso"

then under this quoted statement

i wrote a short paragraph which would have blown the lid off things as it was really truthful/straight forward politically incorrect statements but extremely juicy oh yes!!!!!!

right before i hit the reply to thread button i read it again
and as it would have been ******dynomite**** so i deleted it and just left the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

but man really juicy tidbits of information that would have gotten a rise out of everyone on here
the good the bad and the ugly LOL

michael

jbsteven

maybe monster was the wrong term to use. If I had to pick a certain area it would either be nicely "gem toned" Morgans or high grade Morgans without color.

Colorfulcoins

Hard work, lots of money, and more than a little luck!

stman

<< <i>It takes coin knowledge, $, willing owners/sellers (not everyone is motivated by $), patience, and connections to and relationships with the right sources who can/will provide you with the opportunity to acquire the right coins.

If you don't have ALL of these things, your efforts are sure to fall short. >>



Ok finally I disagree...... because you forgot one might need to "Brown nose" the right people/connections to get them to give you first shot at the great coins that come available. Perhaps that is what you meant a bit but I described it better in my terms.

jbsteven

here are a couple that I believe to be nicely toned Morgans. photos courtesy of gemtone

RegistryCoin

Coin collecting and investing are two different things, but when one has a choice of a coin, or, say a cash-on-cash money making duplex, one has to think of the investment aspect of their coin purchase a bit, imho.

gsaguy

Even attending major shows on a fairly regular basis and stepping up to the plate price-wise on coins that I'd typically add to my collection, it's tough for me to buy multiple pieces for my collection in any given month. Heck, I sometimes go several months without buying a single coin (Morgan) for my collection. Interesting, these days, they seem to appear in 2 or 3's at a time, as opposed to being spread out over the year.

For me, A+ color and luster on clean surfaces is what I'm looking for. And for the most part, many of the coins I add to my collection never make it to the shows. They tend to come my way via a handfull of dealers who know what I'm looking for and contact me when they've found it.

Interesting thread gemtone65......and nice coins posted by JBSteven.

GSAGUY

gemtone65

For those wondering "where do you get cpins like that", the first coin pictured is from the recent B&M auction in Baltimore; the remaining 4 were acquired from Adrian Crane, esquire.

gemtone65

I'm pleased that my thread got a little attention. Yet, not a single person really answered my question, although JB and GSAGuy came close. I agree with both that it would be unrealistic to find 50, let alone 100, monster toned dollars in gem condition over the course of a year. Finding 10 would be considered a monumentally successful search. What I was asking about was more in the nature of finding coins that you would love to add to your collection because they are simply beautiful, even if they fall somewhat short of monster status. And, my question was not limited to any one series. Yet, no one really had a specific answer, and I find that a little strange.

Let me give another example. I used to collect patterns, in particular those dated in the early 1870's. I'd estimate that during the course of a typical year, perhaps 6-10 gem pieces might become available and known to me with careful searching. Assuming the average price per piece were, say, $9000, I could probably satisfy my numismatic tastes in this field on a budget of about $75,000 per year. How much would it cost you to satisfy your numismatic fantasies?

ddink

<< <i>Al obviously didn't spend enough money. he only got to be king of the fat, washed-up politicians >>



Doesn't he get royalties from his invention of the Internet? =D

BigMoose

As usual, coinguy1 hit the nail right on the head with his reply. The only thing I can add to it is that you will also need a lot of time to acquire those great coins, as they usually show up very infrequently as most of them are in very strong hands.

Coinosaurus

Coinguy is dead on as always. It's not just money. It's patience, good research, and continuously to talking to a lot of collectors and dealers. Hitting all the national shows and auctions is also a big part of it.

RGL

Mark, as typical, is right on. I hold, though, that it can be much more fun and rewarding to be a collector of limited resources. We must carefully sift through buying opportunities, cherrypick from among raw coins when the opportunity presents itself and otherwise be much more resourceful than perhaps some of the collectors to whom money is no object. It is almost more fun, unbelievable to say, to operate on a budget than whip out our checkbook whenever a coin strikes our fancy. And, that is not to lambast deep-pocket collectors with a true love for coins who aspire to the best and pass by the grade on the plastic in search of what they know to be a superior coin, regardless of what the slab purports to tell them. Little guys, pat yourselves on the back, you are the soul of this hobby ...

BigE

gemtone, In your original post you said you were using Morgans for example only, that is why no one answered your question---------------------------BigE

Unimental

King of the Hill to me means having a great life, fantastic family, and the best collection I can put together without overstretching my means.

RegistryCoin

Ok, all my numismatic fantasies??? Well, I'd be in pop.1 slab heaven, warmed with all my unique pieces of numismatic history.
ps. how much would that cost? priceless.