#660

BugOnTheRug · April 12, 2004 7:01AM

Just saw Bonds launch it into McCovey Cove..............no doubt about it as it left the bat.............impressive.

Up next....................714

BOTR

joestalin · April 12, 2004 7:05AM

yeah if Bonds can face Matt Kinney everyday he will be on Ruth's doorstep in no time...to bad
he has to face real pitchers who own him, like Clemens and Wells.

Congrats to Barry

JS

Lothar52 · April 12, 2004 7:06AM

Lothar52 · April 12, 2004 7:07AM

think he will sign for next year's heritage set??? hhehe...fat chance huh??

BugOnTheRug · April 12, 2004 7:10AM

<< yeah if Bonds can face Matt Kinney everyday >>

Glad to see your not running and hiding.

Let's just see how long the 'everyday' list is at the end of the year; maybe your buddies will make the list too.................

Cheers, BOTR

jrinck · April 12, 2004 7:47AM

It's not #660, it's #660*

* = Steroid enabled

DirtyHarry · April 12, 2004 8:26AM

Congratulations to Barry Bonds. He is probably the greatest player of the modern era, but will never be the greatest to ever play the game.

TheRoach · April 12, 2004 8:27AM

I'd like to bet that Soriano does not hit more than 300 home runs in his career. Let's remember that HE NEVER HAD A 40/40 SEASON in his career yet either. Someone keeps saying that. he was close, but he couldn't hit a homer in his last 10 games or so to get it. To give it to him, would be like giving Todd Helton the batting title last year when he fell a fraction of a point under Bill Mueller.

I do think it is interesting to learn that people like Babe Ruth, Aaron, Mantle, and mays never had to face a bad pitcher in their careers! That makes them even more impressive. Bonds is just lucky to face these inferior pitchers. He doesn't know what tough is!!

If Stalin really wants, I could compile a list of the homers that Bonds hit off superstar pitchers? Beckett had a spread covering every homer he ever hit and off each specific pitcher.

I wonder if Soriano will be able to hit decent pitchers when he is 39 years old? I guess we'll have to wait the 3 years and see. Ha Ha Ha.

Soriano is good, but not even comparable to Bonds. That's like comparing Jason Kendall to Mike Piazza.

TheRoach

toppsgun · April 12, 2004 8:57AM

or like comparing Josephine Stalin to any cross-eyed, half-wit, 11-year old. (That would be insulting to the 11-year old.)

ROCKDJRW · April 12, 2004 9:28AM

Just by doing a quick check on ESPN.com I noticed Barry has 8 Home Runs each off of Curt Schilling, John Smoltz & Greg Maddox also 3 against Randy Johnson. I just checked some of the active pitchers and Bonds stats against them. Who hasn't he hit? It is a pleasure to watch him play.

joestalin · April 12, 2004 10:31AM

ok...first off who hasn't hit 8 homers off Schilling? The guy gives up the long ball...only 3 against Randy
Johnson was also a stat NOT worth mentioning,The Unit owns Bonds.

As far as Soriano is concerned...he does compare to Bonds, and actually his stats are much better. Im not
sure why you all can't understand...perhaps because you are comparing Juiced HOF Bonds to a young
Soriano......check the stats of Bonds 86-89....SORIANO IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!

Wont hit 300 homers? He is already a third of the way there in only 2 and a half years! Bonds didn't have
98 homers in 1988...why can't you all understand that?

Its obvious that even bringing up Soriano into this conversation, makes him comparable.

JS

PS...Soriano has one more homer off Schilling in the World Series than does Bonds!

Stone193 · April 12, 2004 10:47AM

<< HE NEVER HAD A 40/40 SEASON in his career yet either. >>

Roach
I agree he is not a 40/40 man, in fact two years ago when trying for it, he screwed up his swing so bad, it carried into the world series. But having said that,I will have to say that certain 'Goals' like the 40/40 club belie the fact that this man has 77 HR's AND 76 SB's in two years. Also, the guy can play darn near anywhere effectively on the field, has a respectable OB% and Slugging% - it's hard to take that away. I'll go with Kevin on this one.
Mike

Boopotts · April 12, 2004 11:07AM

I agree with Stone. Why do these threads invariably degenerate into either/or discussions?? They're both great players. Will Soriano have a career as distinguished as Bonds? I doubt it. But that doesn't mean he's a scrub.

toppsgun · April 12, 2004 11:39AM

"Will Soriano have a career as distinguished as Bonds? I doubt it. But that doesn't mean he's a scrub."

But if he doesn't have as distinguished a career as Bonds (who JS impies is one), will Josephine admit Sorryano is a scrub?

baseballjeff · April 12, 2004 3:06PM

ROCKDJRW · April 12, 2004 8:37PM

<< The Unit owns Bonds. >>

Just to state the FACTS Bonds for his career vs Randy Johnson has a .316 BA with 3 HR's, 10 RBI, and 9 walks. Doesn't seem like total domination to me.

Butcher · April 12, 2004 11:38PM

Soriano is 28yrs old and will probably beat Bonds HR record with errors at 2nd base this year!!!! Compare the #'s of when Bonds was 28 and Soriano as of now!!!

BigKidAtHeart · April 12, 2004 11:45PM

How cool is it that the guy that caught it in McCovey cove
GAVE IT BACK TO BARRY!

LINK

34GoudeyCollector · April 13, 2004 3:00AM

What a story! It's nice to see someone in it for the game and not $$$ greed!!

carew4me · April 13, 2004 4:53AM

I think it should read:

660*

TheRoach · April 13, 2004 5:32AM

<< I think it should read:

660* >>

Based on what? His "alleged" use of steroids?

TheRoach

BigKidAtHeart · April 13, 2004 5:47AM

<< 

<< I think it should read:

660* >>

Based on what? His "alleged" use of steroids?
>>

it is ok roach... they are all just jealous that THEIR
favorite players suck in comaprison to all bonds
has acheived. (only 500/600 man, SIX mvp awards,
3rd all-tim on homeruns, etc. etc. etc.)
They did the same kind of "smear campain" to Maris
and to Aaron... and it is always based in jealousy.

just ignore them.

RobE · April 13, 2004 6:57AM

The ultimate nightmare for Bonds would be - he hits his 666th gets injured,out for the season and then all the sterioids facts wind up being revealed.

I'm not hoping for this but since 666 is in the middle of the block it's a number that makes you wonder.

jrinck · April 13, 2004 7:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< I think it should read:

660* >>

Based on what? His "alleged" use of steroids?
>>

it is ok roach... they are all just jealous that THEIR
favorite players suck in comaprison to all bonds
has acheived. (only 500/600 man, SIX mvp awards,
3rd all-tim on homeruns, etc. etc. etc.)
They did the same kind of "smear campain" to Maris
and to Aaron... and it is always based in jealousy.

just ignore them.

>>

Actually, I don't have a favorite player. My comment above about steroids is based on the allegations PLUS the fact that his appearance has changed consistently with steroid use over the years. If I'm wrong, and he is/was steroid free, then I'll actually be excited for the guy, and his rightful place in baseball history. If I'm right about steroid use, then he's a disgrace to the game and the asterisk is deserved.

TheRoach · April 13, 2004 10:42AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< I think it should read:

660* >>

Based on what? His "alleged" use of steroids?
>>

it is ok roach... they are all just jealous that THEIR
favorite players suck in comaprison to all bonds
has acheived. (only 500/600 man, SIX mvp awards,
3rd all-tim on homeruns, etc. etc. etc.)
They did the same kind of "smear campain" to Maris
and to Aaron... and it is always based in jealousy.

just ignore them.

>>

Actually, I don't have a favorite player. My comment above about steroids is based on the allegations PLUS the fact that his appearance has changed consistently with steroid use over the years. If I'm wrong, and he is/was steroid free, then I'll actually be excited for the guy, and his rightful place in baseball history. If I'm right about steroid use, then he's a disgrace to the game and the asterisk is deserved. >>

Actually the thing that bothers me is that people cannot believe that a person can get pretty big over a few years with a very tough workout regime. If a guy gets big, it's automatically steroids.

I grew up as a thin framed kid who was always a bit taller than the rest. Right now I am only 6'1 tops. Anyway, after about the age of 22 or so, I started filling out alot more and my frame got bigger and wider. I am sure the hops and barley had lots to do with it, but I have a very small beer belly. Hardly noticeable with my frame.

I have been told for the past 5 years that if I hit the weights consistently, I would be a monster in about 2 years. I worked out off and on for the past 10 years, but never more than 2 months at a time, and it basically just kept me a bit more defined than the average guy my weight. I weigh about 255 right now.

To make a long story short, I believe that if I laid off the beer, kept a better eye on the foods that I ate, and worked out with proffessional trainers throughout the WHOLE YEAR, I could add alot of bulk muscle and look pretty damn big compared to what I am now. Rumors of steroids would be all over me, and I never would have touched them.

I know Bonds was a lot skinnier back in '86, but who the hell wasn't? I weighed about 125lbs back then. I think he started to bulk up around '98 or so. It definitely was not overnight. People were not paying as close as attention to the guy before he started challenging McGwire's record, and they would be lying if they say they were. I have always heard that Barry's workout program was comparable to Walter Payton's when it came to length, exhiliration, and overall toughness. If he worked out for 3-4 hours a day, 4-5 times a week, I believe that his muscle is all legit.

Could he have taken some CARB milkshakes, or mass builders which are perfectly legal? Sure. He may have even taken some of the natural steroids that are not banned from MLB that millions of other people take when working out. Very possible.

Here is a question for all the people who are accusing him of steroids - Let's say that it was found that Bonds was taking a natural steroid that was not banned by MLB at this time. Would you still be all hung up on the steroid thing considering that any other player has the same opportunity, or would you look for some other reason to try and lessen the values of his accomplishments?

I really believe that half of the people who are concerned with the steroid thing, actually only want to catch him because of their dislike for him as a person. He is a known jagbag to the media, etc.., so most of you are looking to crucify him because of that reason only.

TheRoach

RobE · April 13, 2004 10:50AM

Last night John Kruck made the same exact point as you did Roach.

They did a flash back from Bonds first HR to his 100th and up making points of how he's gotten bigger over time.But John was saying he was 165 when he was signed and now look at what happens when you get older.

Heh.I used to be 165 in 1997 and I'm about 200 consistantly at 5'11".

slvnumber2 · April 13, 2004 11:00AM

I think I can speak on this subject with some background. I am a former baseball player, and after I was done playing I also competed as a powerlifter on the national level for several years. I cannot speak from experience about steroids personally from a usage standpoint, but some of the guys that I train with use them for several years and discuss them frequently. Some of these guys from a lifting standpoint would make Bonds look weak in a gym by comparison, and he obviously would do the same on a ball field.

As far as steroids and helping with baseball there is no queston they work, and the 5-7% they caught last year is a scary number. Since position players are roughly half of all players that means that 10-14% of the players that would take them to gain were caught. This happened even when they knew they were being tested. Imagine if they did random blind testing in December when these guys are working out - I still have several guys I played with that are still in the big's and it is going on more than most people know.

If I had to guess I would say that Bonds is using either growth hormone or the new designer drug THG. Has he been convicted? Until the grand jury testimony comes out we won't know, but the evidence is so strong that it would be hard to ignore. He "suddenly" got bigger and stronger in his mid to late 30's when males typically show a reduction in natural production of testosterone and growth hormone. Even with the training some speak of his body naturally over the course of a 162 game schedule, a 25-30 game spring schedule, cross-country travel, getting to the park for a 7:05 game at 1-2 pm for BP and stretching is going to detoriate. The body only has so many resources to allow it to do these things as well as train it without muscle and strength loss. After the season my weight would be down 8-10 lbs because of the wear and tear of the season. Oh yeah not to mention the fact that he was called for grand jury testimony in a case that involves a company that was selling designer steroids that could not be detected and his trainer was involved with BALCO. Throw into the mix the fact that under testimony he informed them that he gave steroids to Bonds, Santiago, Bernard, and others. OJ might have gotten off free but you would have a hard time convincing most people that he was innocent.

RobE · April 13, 2004 12:15PM

The 661 shirt is next.

How about the 2 3 4 5 and dreaded 6.

The 666 Bonds shirt.

BigKidAtHeart · April 13, 2004 12:31PM

<< How cool is it that the guy that caught it in McCovey cove
GAVE IT BACK TO BARRY!

LINK

>>

WOW!
The Same Damn Guy got the 661 ball!
(maybe he gets to keep that one?!)

That guy needs to buy a lottery ticket!

jrinck · April 13, 2004 12:42PM

I'm going by how the structure of Bonds' face seems to have changed. Weights alone generally doesn't change your facial structure, and neither does fifteen years of aging--at least as dramatically as his has changed. Remember those Russian women Olympians from the 70's? SCARY!

Like I said, if he is vindicated from these accusations then he deserves all the accolades he's earned. If you believe Bonds is innocent even though he's been seriously close to trainers and people with access to the drugs, then do you also believe that Pete Rose was innocent despite hanging out with convicted felons and bookies? You can judge a lot about a man by the company he keeps.

slvnumber2 · April 13, 2004 1:25PM

Word also has it that he has gone up an entire half size in hats in the past fewyears i.e. he went from a 7 1/4 to a 7 3/4. That just does not happen naturally nor does the extended forehead - unless a little growth hormone got sprinkled on his Fruity Pebble's.

fullerfun4 · April 13, 2004 2:58PM

I guess if Bonds had to hit every game against Hall of Fame pitchers he'd have a lot fewer HR's. But I don't think any hitter in history has had to hit against Hall of Fame pitchers exclusively. Gee, I think even Aaron and Ruth even got to hit against other than Hall of Famers, you thinK? And lots of other "great" hitters have hit against the same pitchers, and guess what? No one else has had a slugging percentage like Bonds except for Ruth. And he gets walked way more than anyone. In reality, it's amazing to me how he is able to take advantage of the few opportunities to hit that he gets.
I'm not happy about the steriods thing, but even if he was using it, it most likely wasn't a banned substance. So give the guy a break and give him his due.

bill7549 · April 14, 2004 7:05AM

I won't say Barry isn't a great player...he is, irrespective of steroid use or not. I just can stand him because of his personality. Unfortunately, a lot of professional athletes are like him too, egos too big to fit in the universe, let alone this earth.

Heck, if I got $10 mil a year to play a game, I'd be the happiest, most modest guy you ever met. Imagine if Barry had to actually work for a living....

This is the main reason I don't watch pro sports much anymore (other than pro football), and why I only collect vintage cards.

Ok, off my soapbox for now.

Stone193 · April 14, 2004 8:07AM

<< Heck, if I got $10 mil a year to play a game, I'd be the happiest, most modest guy you ever met. Imagine if Barry had to actually work for a living.... >>

Bill
I used to think the same thing - but ya know, I would imagine with that kind of money, you can get pretty paranoid - I would imagine MANY people are trying to take advantage of you. Just tryin to see it from the other side of the fence.
Mike

bill7549 · April 14, 2004 9:00AM

Good point, Mike. But, heck, I'd like to give it a shot if you know what I mean!

#660

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