Question about Ebay sellers feedback policies
boston1918
Posts: 71
What kind of policies do you guys have for leaving feedback? If a buyer pays promptly is that enough for you to leave a positive? I had the foloowing experience and would like your opinion.
I won an item on Ebay and paid right away with Paypal. Most sellers leave me a positive right there and we're good to go. This guy won't answer emails for 4 days as he agreed to ship it overnight, and I emailed him a couple times asking what was up. I finally got a reply today and he said he couldn't do it the other day and since Friday he was spending time with his family and didn't want to bother with emails, then he made a snide remark and asked if that was alright with me that he wanted to see his family on Easter. Right away I thought this was totally rude and irresponsible as a seller to first not email me to update me after payment, and second to try to make me feel bad for bothering him over the holidays when he's got auctions up still and besides that has my money. So I told him, either way I paid, please leave a positive. His reply to this was he doesn't leave positives until everything is done and buyer has their item AND leaves them one first. He said all sellers do it this way and I never came across it. If I paid, I deserve the FB right? The only reason I could see for hiim doing it this was is he is selling junk and wants to make sure he gets a positve, or more importantly doesn't get a negative. If item shows up bad, he's guaranteed to use the fact that he'll leave a negative if I do. So then it puts you in an awkward situation where you're faced with retaliatory negative. He is bragging about his perfect feedback and it is no doubt due to the fact of this. I believe he deserves a negative just for me paying for overnight shipping, and not hearing for four days, besides the fact of his selling practices of holding my feedback "hostage" until he is safe and gets his. And I would bet if I was dumb enough to leave a positive first after this, that he would leave a negative just to screw me as that is the type of guy he is.
Anyway, I'm starting to rant, what do you guys think?
I won an item on Ebay and paid right away with Paypal. Most sellers leave me a positive right there and we're good to go. This guy won't answer emails for 4 days as he agreed to ship it overnight, and I emailed him a couple times asking what was up. I finally got a reply today and he said he couldn't do it the other day and since Friday he was spending time with his family and didn't want to bother with emails, then he made a snide remark and asked if that was alright with me that he wanted to see his family on Easter. Right away I thought this was totally rude and irresponsible as a seller to first not email me to update me after payment, and second to try to make me feel bad for bothering him over the holidays when he's got auctions up still and besides that has my money. So I told him, either way I paid, please leave a positive. His reply to this was he doesn't leave positives until everything is done and buyer has their item AND leaves them one first. He said all sellers do it this way and I never came across it. If I paid, I deserve the FB right? The only reason I could see for hiim doing it this was is he is selling junk and wants to make sure he gets a positve, or more importantly doesn't get a negative. If item shows up bad, he's guaranteed to use the fact that he'll leave a negative if I do. So then it puts you in an awkward situation where you're faced with retaliatory negative. He is bragging about his perfect feedback and it is no doubt due to the fact of this. I believe he deserves a negative just for me paying for overnight shipping, and not hearing for four days, besides the fact of his selling practices of holding my feedback "hostage" until he is safe and gets his. And I would bet if I was dumb enough to leave a positive first after this, that he would leave a negative just to screw me as that is the type of guy he is.
Anyway, I'm starting to rant, what do you guys think?
Looking for Red Sox HOF items
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Comments
Until...something doesnt go as expected, then its as stressful as telling your girlfriend that she has gained some weight
Groucho Marx
First, what if a buyer buys a card recieves it, then since he paid by Credit Card through Paypal he decides to chargeback on his card. Does this buyer warrant a positive??
Second same thing except the CC was stolen and is chargedback after you leave positive. Does this deserve a positive??
I had a buyer win a card recently from me, when he recieved it he said he felt he paid too much since others on Ebay got for 25% less than he paid. He said he would leave a neg if I did not refund him 10 dollars. Does he deserve a Positive?? Actually he got suspended for feedback extortion.
Things like this are happening more and more in other areas and it is slowly filtering into sportscards so sellers are having to protect themselves by waitign on Feedback.
Key is feedback is optional, you can ask them to leave FB but if you become demanding you are crossing the line.
As far as sellers emailing you after payment, many sellers like myself run 2 seperate Ebay businesses and simply do not have time to respond to every single payment between packaging listing and answering questions.
First thing to remember is feedback is optional. As nice as it would be for everyone to use the system properly, it is not mandatory for neither buyer nor seller to leave feedback every single time.
That being said I will share my feedback philosophy.
As a BUYER: When I win an auction I always pay within 5 minutes with paypal. Just last night I won my first item ever where the seller does not use paypal. I normally will not bid on auctions not using paypal. Anyways I make fast payments, and I leave alittle note with the paypal notice saying" thanks for the auction, I will gladly leave proper feedback once I receive the item."
Then I forgot about it untill I receive my item. Once I receive my item, as long as it didnt an unreasonable amount of time, and the item is as described in the auction then I will go to leave feedback.
Now I check to see if the seller has left me feedback, if he has then I go ahead also, if NOT then I dont leave them feedback.
I feel once I pay, and by the time I receive my item it has been plenty of time for the seller to have left feedback. IMO if they have not either they are lazy or most likely they are playing the retalliatory (sp) feedback game. There is no reason to withhold feedback to see if the person likes the card. Thats bull crap imo. If you described your item correctly, and you did the things your suppose to do as the seller then you should not need worry about it.
As a SELLER: When I sell an item I use the same method above but in reverse. When I sell soemthing, once I am paid in a timely manner, I leave feedback right ater I am paid, and normally on the same day I ship so I include the shipping date on the feedback for the person as well for easy reference.
I look at it as the buyers job is done, al he has to do is win my auction, pay quickly, let me know if he wants insurance or not and give me his address. After that the ball is in my court so no need to sit around holding feedback to see if he likes the card.
Anyways thats how I see it and handle it. Alot of folks didnt agree with me for various reasons. But personally I had not seen any reason valid for a seller to withold a feedback. It almost always boils down to "using" feedback as a protection in case soemthing goes wrong or to cover the sellers butt.
I just dont think thats how the system was meant to be used and it underminds it. I also am not a power seller, and although I can easily understand the importance of having a great feedback, I think people stress to much if they get a negative.
Hell with all the crazy folk out there it makes me think twice when I see some power seller with 50,000 feedbac and not one neg!
http://www.beckett.com/userpages/Gyrak.html
Another thing many bulk sellers leave feedback in batches once a week or every 2 weeks or so. It is just too tedious for most to do them individually.
I don't worry about whether people leave me feedback, and I check mine only every other week or so. It seems to me that feedback is most important when you are trying to get established in the ebay community. Once you've been around awhile and have a good rating, whether people leave you feedback or not is much less of a concern.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Hey Nearmint, any more 69 Football in your future. I'm still looking to upgrade the 2nd series
Kurt
I think Ebay should change quite a few of their policies (like removing retalitory negatives) as well as letting your feedback numbers go up from multiple purchases (if you buy/sell from the same person after a month your numbers should go up).
The first was CardLinkHalf, and they sent only 3 out of 5 things I bought correctly and then did not reply. I threatened and then eventually left a negative. Minutes later they gave me a negative saying that I didn't give them time. Bull$hit!
The most recent was Auctionablity, and I flat out left them a negative after receiving (10 ) '02 Bowman Draft Guilermo Quiroz rookies that were in terrible shape. They would all have graded a PSA 5 or below. I didn't pay much, but that's not the point. This is a seller who sends out garbage products ( at least in this instance ), and then says "If you would have emailed me, I would have offered a refund". I got some advice for them. How about not sending out junk product to begin with!?!?!
I'm sick of the whole Feedback thing. My negatives are all from people who retaliated, and I refuse to pay SquareTrade $20 to have them removed. In every instance, I was the buyer. What a shame.
TheRoach
I understand what you're saying, but personally, I wouldn't change my policy because of one jerk. I don't want all my customers to suffer because of one loser. If I take a defensive attitude toward my customers--e.g., telling them that they must leave me a positive before I leave them one--I believe that that attitude will dampen my relationship with them.
Yeah, I get burned now and then, but I think the goodwill I foster by trusting people from the outset outweighs the cost of getting burned occasionally. In fact, I think giving people the benefit of the doubt from the beginning helps me get burned less often.
Mike
mr300bowl: You must be clairvoyant! I was just going through a nice stack of raw 69T 2nd series cards, and probably a couple dozen are worthy of grading. My submissions are taking a looong time to come back, though: I have 5 of them in now. At this rate it will be 2 months before I have these back.
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Acknowledge Payment
Once you receive payment from your buyer send an email to 1) acknowledge receipt of payment and 2) that you will be will be shipping the item. It's also a good idea to leave feedback for your buyer at this point.
Leaving Feedback
Just as building your reputation is important, so is it for the buyer. Make sure to leave feedback for your buyers after you receive payment. In difficult situations, try and work things out first with your buyers before leaving negative feedback. Feedback is permanent and leaving negative feedback may in turn result in negative feedback being left for you.
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I also leave feedback right away, it's good for business to always give the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I will withhold on a large purchase to an unconfirmed address for instance. I never expect feedback, and really wouldn't care if someone did leave me a neg. There are bound to be those people that are going to scam you out there on both sides of the issue. Let the chips fall where they may. Safe trading all!
Jeremy
I sell on eBay and always leave feedback once payment has been received (I will only wait if paid by personal check for it to clear). I can see how that gives proof to the buyer that he has paid. But I will always use delivery confirmation for my proof it was sent. 2 times I have had a buyer say they didn't received but when I provded the tracking confirmation number, they went away or came up with a oops I forgot I received it story.
Not a dig at you, it's just a fact that you are a demanding buyer that needs a little TLC from a seller. A pro seller would cater to you as a buyer who pays within minutes of auction close like yourself is a godsend. Remember a lot of people on eBay are not professional sellers, they just sell an item here or there in a garage sale type fashion and it is not their livelyhood. So sending it say a week later in their eyes isn't a big deal. I understand how you can be frustrated, but think even if you buy from Amazon.com and pay for overnight, you typically don't get it the day after you buy it. They want time to pick and pack it (see their disclaimers). Did you need the item right away? If so, I think then a little responsibility is on your end to contact the seller before bidding to get an email saying he will send it within X business days after you pay for it. I am hoping it worked out and you received the item. If so, in my eyes for feedback to this guy, no feedback or perhaps a neutral just stating why you were somewhat dissatisfied but at least there was a means to an end. You may want to suggest to the seller in an email to offer priority mail or parcel post instead to help buyers cut shipping costs as people do account for shipping when making their bids. Especially if the item is a low ticket item. Since he didn't go out of his way for you, you now know not to buy from him anymore.
Good luck!
And Knl, I understand people are busy, but when this guy has no problem emailing every day before the auction ended as we were discussing shipping and such, then as soon as payment is made has no more time to talk that's not ok. And if you are running 2 Ebay businesses and can't answer an email within 4 days, then I would say you aren't running your business very well. These weren't just random questions or nagging, we had an agreement where I pay for overnight and he ships the next day. To not answer for 4 days when I should have had the item 3 days prior is inexcusable. To get mad at me and try to make me feel bad for bothering him is even worse. He is at fault for agreeing to ship it and no answering for 4 days, and worse, not shipping it.
I personally feel fast shipping is over rated, as I don't mind waiting for an item and rather pay the cheapest shipping rate to save money. I don't need my 1990 Leaf Frank Thomas rookie card that fast--its not life-threatening (a kidney is a different story).
HOWEVER, your story is different and empathize with you. If you paid for priority, then that seller better be on the ball and deliver. He should not make promises he can't keep. WHAT A JERK!!!!! Yes, family is important, so why did he schedule auctions to end when they did---that's his problem. The least he could have done was set up automatic reply to his customer stating its the holidays and he will get back to everyone afterwards.....he should refund money that customers paid for priority as a good gesture too. He even had the audacity to say you must leave feedback first? What a jerk, it is customary for seller to leave feedback first since you did what was expected. I think it is easier to be a buyer than a seller, but that's the way it is. As a buyer, just pay. As a seller, make sure item description as accurate and if there are descrepenices, then the seller has to cater to the buyer. There is more room for mishaps being a seller.
I feel respected as a customer when seller leaves me feedback first. That puts a good feeling inside of me. When the item arrives, I inspect it to make sure it is as described (I always email seller for details about description so that there is no chance for misunderstanding). Once I feel the item was as described and the seller made every effort to be my eyes and ears and made no deception, I leave a positive. If item is not as described, I email them and usually get ignored .....funny, those sellers never leave feedback first either.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
I think we forget that e-mail is a fairly cold medium of communication and that misunderstandings happen easily and are easily amplified. My guess is, meaning no disrespect, if he felt he had to make a snide remark about is it okay with you that he spend time with his family, there was probably something in your message that made him feel you thought otherwise. Not to say that you intended to impart that message, but just some innocent statement that pushed HIS button, so he pushed yours. On the other hand, your seller may just be an idiot!
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
There are a lot of scammers out there, particularly with newer cards that attract younger buyers. However, keeping the feedback in reserve doesn't protect you from them. Even if you neg them, they can just start a new id the next day and start scamming people again. Consequently, leaving a negative for a scammer really accomplishes nothing for you or other sellers. Most scammers probably don't use their primary account for their scamming activities anyway.
You protect yourself from chargebacks by shipping valuable packages with methods that provide clear cut proof of delivery and having at least one other person witness the packaging of the product(s). Then, if they do a chargeback and do not return the item you sent, you turn them in to the us postal inspectors...and they will investigate the case. I've done this to two buyers already. (They were dumb enough to email me several times claiming they didn't receive their package. Problem was, they had already signed for it and shown their id to the postal carrier.) Realistically, you can never be 100% safe no matter what steps you take, but feedback is the least effective weapon in your arsenal.
Regarding feedback extortionists, you already demonstrated how to deal with them. However, some are more clever in how they word their threats, thus keeping ebay off their backs. With those types, sellers are better off just taking the negative. Feedback really isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. I've seen people with low feedback or even no feedback (as a seller) sell items for thousands of dollars. I've seen big lots (that were obviously junk) sell for a ton when the seller's feedback repeatedly showed he was scamming people in these lots. The people who post here may carefully examine a seller's feedback for valuable items, but, believe me, they do not represent the public at large. The infamous pro dealer uses PRIVATE feedback and sells trimmed cards for hundreds of dollars, so what does that tell you about teh importance of feedback?
Also, scammers look for people who have given in to other scammers to protect their feedback rating. I learned this the hard way. They can tell by reading the positive comments the scammers leave after you meet their demands (ex: "will do anything to please a buyer.") Get a few of those in your profile and, believe me, the scammers will be swarming on you. So, you're actually much better off getting a negative from them (although, most of the time, they won't even leave the negative.) It will tell the next scammer lurking about that you won't take any crap from him...so he'll move on to the next guy.
The bottom line for me now is that I'll leave feedback after the buyer pays and, if the buyer makes unreasonable demands/threats afterward, I respond accordingly - just as I would if he had no ability to leave feedback at all. I don't worry about losing the opportunity to "neg" him if he attempts to scam me because I can always find other recourses that are much more severe and effective. And, in the process of doing that, I don't antagonize the honest buyers by reserving positive feedback. (BTW, it doesn't antagonize me at all when sellers do that...I couldn't care less about my f/b rating as a buyer...but it does bug a lot of people).