What would you do with this Ebay sellers remorse?

KISHU1

From : Mark Chrans <hottestcoins@hotmail.com>
Sent : Friday, April 9, 2004 1:40 PM
To : lunapeaches@hotmail.com
Subject : re: purchase

| | | Inbox


Hi Frank,
I unfortunately have some bad news regarding your order. Due to my own error the coin you purchased was listed incorrectly; it was listed as a CAM when it should have been listed as a DCAM. At the moment my boss is out of town and it would be greatly appreciated if there was some way that we could take care of this quickly and quietly. Normally a 1955 PR66DCAM JEFFERSON 5C costs $350.00. If you would like to keep this coin I could sell it to you at wholesale cost for $250.00. If you would like your money back I could send you a refund immediately. As I'm sure you realize you do have the third option of keeping your order because you did win the auction fair and square and the mistake was on my part. But I would really, really appreciate any cooperation you might be able to give me. Please get back to me as soon as possible because I am on a time constraint in regards to dealing with this. Thank you again.

Kindest Regards,
Isaac



The picture in the ad was a DCAM.

Frank Dallessio

mrearlygold

Sounds like an honest mistake.

TP

CarlWohlforth

They are a high volume seller. Don't give them the break. Ask for the terms as you won the auction.

HalfCents

He had lots of time to "find" his mistake before the auction ended. Make him stick with the price and terms YOU bid on.

and ..........

Placid

Got a link to the auction?

Nevermind I found it.

Link

So you didn't bin it and there was 4 bids. The picture shows the pcgs grade.

Russ

Did this auction run an entire length? Not a BIN? If so, tell them to pound sand and hold them to the deal. BTW, this is a forum member who posts nowhere outside of the Buy/Sell/Trade forums simply to link his auctions.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

Would have been a ligitimate end with 5 seconds left

goose3

with all the steps involved in listing a coin and reviewing your listing and picture(s) and having it listed for several days I think I'd pay whatever you won it for and leave it at that.

I'm not a trusting soul and tend to doubt the reasons outlined in the email. I think someone is unhappy with the selling price.

HalfCents

"doubt the reasons outlined in the email. I think someone is unhappy with the selling price. "

Absolutely!!!

KISHU1

My first try at a link

1955 jeff CAM

JrGMan2004

<< <i>with all the steps involved in listing a coin and reviewing your listing and picture(s) and having it listed for several days I think I'd pay whatever you won it for and leave it at that.

I'm not a trusting soul and tend to doubt the reasons outlined in the email. I think someone is unhappy with the selling price. >>



I agree with Goose...

astrorat

If you had bid ABOVE their DCAM price, would the seller offer to reduce your winning bid? Yes, that was a rhetorical question. They sold the coin in an open market, and as such, sometimes coins don't sell for what they "should" bring. Tell them you appreciate their situation, but you did bid fairly and using eBay as a venue carries no guarantees of a final price.

Lane

P.S I am actually surprised that the seller would even ask you such a question!

Russ

<< <i>My first try at a link

1955 jeff CAM >>



You won it fair and square after it ran seven days, and they had ample opportunity to shut it down for an error in the listing. No mercy.

Russ, NCNE

Placid

Yes neg them when they don't send the coin. I am sure they will neg you back oh well such is life.

KlectorKid

They are powersellers tell them you want it at the price you got it for. Maybe it will be a lesson to them and wont make the mistake in the future.

dbldie55

I think they should send a PR66CAM. That is what the title says.

stman

You ought to curb stomp um. Anybody grow up in the streets here?

Placid

I see this seller starts their auctions at certain amount to protect themself at least with their current auctions. I think this was a honest mistake.

mrearlygold

Is Mark Chrans an employee of somebody's?

I don't sell on ebay BTW. I couldn't be bothered with it.

TP

coinguy1

If the other party in a transaction has made what appears to me to be an honest mistake (in fact, I would even give him the benefit of the doubt, unless I had a reason not to), I would let him void the transaction.

I would feel this way, whether the other person were a dealer or non-dealer and whether I were the buyer or the seller.

If there is a mistake of this nature, there is no "meeting of the minds" and no contract. So, to me, the transaction should be voided, both legally and ethically and, because I think it's the nice/right thing to do.

I do not claim that my take is necessarily right and that others are wrong, merely that it's right for me.

Let the flaming begin.

Punscoins

Don't pay any more for the item, It is the sellers mistake, he had pleanty of time to realize this and end early. Don't pay another dime for it.

astrorat

<< <i>I think they should send a PR66CAM. That is what the title says. >>



But the PHOTO was the coin that was being auctioned. With the logic of the title as the overriding description, one could auction a "certified" coin with picture of a PGCS yet send the seller a third tier slabbed coin because the title did say "certified".

With that said, the coin does not actually look that DCAM anyway. Perhaps it's just the photo, but the frost is really light.

Lane

Placid

<< <i>Don't pay any more for the item, It is the sellers mistake, he had pleanty of time to realize this and end early. Don't pay another dime for it. >>



You can't force someone to send you something.
If you want to go to court over it you might get it.

I belive his e-mail is his way of telling you no way are you getting the coin for that price.
So you can just say no to the higher price and get your money back if you already paid or try to bully him into sending the coin and good luck with that.
You will end up leaving a neg and he will leave you a neg and no one will be any better off than when they started.

dbldie55

If the picture was incorrect, but the seller demanded payment how would you feel? I still think they should just send on in 66CAM as the title says. Of course, it may also get lost in the mail and then a refund will be due.

stman

<< <i>So, to me, the transaction should be voided, both legally and ethically and, because I think it's the nice/right thing to do. >>



Yeah, figures Coinguy1 would say something like that. Nice guys come out last haven't you learned yet?

Seriously though.... I would do the same thing as you suggested Mr. Feld. I know it's hard to believe.

KISHU1

I was bidding on the coin in the photo, and I thought it was a great price. I finally got a good deal on EBay!!
I would never pay what he wants for the coin, and will not bid on his auctions again.

mrearlygold

Nice guys do not come out last.

Everybody pays eventually. And get paid.

TP

mnmcoin

<< <i>As I'm sure you realize you do have the third option of keeping your order >>



Sounds like you already have the coin, or it is on its way to you from this statement. Maybe I am wrong.

Obviously getting a 66cam for the price you paid is not acceptable, no doubt bidding got furious because everyone saw the 66dcam pic.

Obviously you can do what you like, but I tend to agree with coinguy1 on this one. Do unto others as you would have done unto you...is a good statement to live by. Live fairly and you will be all right.

morris <><

ps, I happen to know the dealer very well and I can say that I believe it to be an honest mistake...Mark Chrans is the dealer and Isaac works for him (try not to put Isaac through the wringer on this one, as Mark will certainly be upset by his mistake)

KISHU1

Thanks everyone for you input and I look forward to contributing to the board

Frank Dallessio

astrorat

<< <i>Thanks everyone for you input and I look forward to contributing to the board

Frank Dallessio >>



Well Frank, what is the plan? You got the opinions, but what are you going to do?

Lane

stman

<< <i>Nice guys do not come out last.

Everybody pays eventually. And get paid.

TP >>



And you can prove this how? BTW, thanks for the serman ( spelling?) but if you would have seen my wink and known me you would know I wasn't serious with my comment. I also said I would do the same thing as Coinguy1 mentioned.

TayTay

Tell them that you've seen a DCAM go for less what what you paid

mrearlygold

<< <i>

<< <i>Nice guys do not come out last.

Everybody pays eventually. And get paid.

TP >>



And you can prove this how? BTW, thanks for the serman ( spelling?) but if you would have seen my wink and known me you would know I wasn't serious with my comment. I also said I would do the same thing as Coinguy1 mentioned. >>




I missed the wink.

TP

KISHU1

Well, I appreaciate everyones comments but I am still in a quandry. I consider myself to be a honest person, but then again I was bidding on an auction that was seen by who knows how many Ebayers, and I won.
If it was a private indiviual I would have less of a problem with not going thru with it. But with a dealer, I have a hard time with it since I doubt that I would be given the same oportunity. It would be like going in to a coin shop and selling a coin and then the next day going back and saying I made a mistake and sold you the wrong coin, can I have my money back?

Does this mean I should not cherrypick? Buy in a dealer bin where he dosn't know about that Accent Hair Kennedy, that FBL, the FB Mercury, Full Step Jeff.

I have a hard time with my pride sometimes, but this coin may be more trouble than its worth.

I don't want to be known as a sucker, but I also don't want to be know as being dishonest.

MY answer is..........................................

dbldie55

If the seller sends you a 66CAM will you be satisfied? That should answer your own question.

BigAl

I could sell it to you at wholesale cost for $250.00.

Is this price fair? Maybe he should have listed a reserve....

you could be a nice guy and offer him the lesser of:
1. your max bid or,
2. recent prices realized at auction for same item

i wouldn't worry too much about meeting of minds/offer-acceptance etc... all that goes out the window at the close of an auction. I'd be more concerned with actually receiving the coin if you press him to live up to his end of the bargain. If you share this concern, you should probably ask yourself how much this coin is worth to you. If not, tell him to ship insured w/ delivery confirmation or offer to pay extra for registered. Good luck!

mrearlygold

I don't want to be known as a sucker, but I also don't want to be know as being dishonest.


Hi Frank, people make mistakes. You wouldn't be a sucker for giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Rgrds
TP

KISHU1

Think good thoughts, Think good thoughts, Think good thoughts, Think good thoughts!!!

Well I don't really believe its the right thing to do, but I will tell them they can keep the coin.

I bet in the next month I will be leaving a post that the same coin gets resold for less that what I paid!!


Frank

tgilliams

They are very honest people, always happy with them. The poor guy made an error, gave no excuses, and appears a little nervous about some possible problems this may cost him. You'll feel 110% better if you'd return or make up the difference on the coin. This is a hobby of integrity and a close-knit group of special people. Do what your heart tells you, you sound like a person that this hobby is proud of. Start this gentleman's week on a real Up-Beat, work out a deal that is fair to the both of you.

A "Good Deed's" ALWAYS come back to you three-fold. A pleasure to meet you and thanks for sharing you're experience with others. Tom

Catch22

If you believe this to be an honest mistake by the seller, then you know what the "right" thing to do is. I certainly believe it to be an honest mistake and would let the seller off the hook without getting bent out of shape over it.

The Golden Rule...remember?

mrearlygold

Good for you Frank.

Rgrds
TP

mnmcoin

You can also make a fair offer on the coin, he may be obliged to make a better deal with you.

morris <><

KISHU1

I sent them Email asking for my money back.

Thanks Again

mrearlygold

<< <i>You can also make a fair offer on the coin, he may be obliged to make a better deal with you.

morris <>< >>




we all screw up. I did a doozy last month. I offered an 1810 half eagle to a customer and then I sold it after not hearing back from him in a couple of days.

Well, had I checked my email I would have seen his mail that said "I'll take it""checks in the mail"! ( I'm not an email dealer)

He was unhappy and so was I. He's a good customer. I ultimately let him buy a newp early gold half eagle at my cost.

Good things ultimately happen to good people.

Rgrds
TP

northcoin

I would assume that everyone who bid on that auction saw the photo and knew what they were bidding on so the price you offered was what the market would bear. That said, the seller's only beef would be that other people might have also taken a look at the auction if the title had included DCAM.

I trust now that you have asked for your money back that the dealer makes it up to you somehow. My suggestion would be for him to relist the coin properly and give you 50% of everything it brings over the price you would have paid. In addition he should set the reserve at what you would have paid and if the reserve is not met then the coin is yours at the originally offered price.

I would add, if the seller does not do as above suggested and relist the coin then it is most likely that he has another buyer in the wings willling to pay more and you have been cheated.

Kriek

<< <i>You won it fair and square after it ran seven days, and they had ample opportunity to shut it down for an error in the listing. >>


I concur.

LALASD4

I think the price is about right anyways, it is kind of a slow time on Ebay, I saw some 1955 PR67DCAM's went for only three hundred something somewhere slse.

Shamika

"If you had bid ABOVE their DCAM price, would the seller offer to reduce your winning bid?"

My thoughts exactly.

However, if your conscience bothers you, offer to split the difference. You get a coin for a good price (though not as good as you had hoped) and the seller learns to be more careful.

EvilMCT

Did you bother to contact the seller before bidding? Had you done so (if you had enough time of course) all of this could have been avoided. I've had similar experiences in the past. With one, I knew the seller made a mistake and used the BIN option listed. Dealer balked and acted like a complete idiot. But, I did it to determine whether or not to purchase additional coins from him. If he had acted as your seller has, he would have a lot more business from me.

On the flip side, I found a coin that I really wanted that was listed incorrectly. I contacted the seller asking about the listing versus the photos. He thanked me and corrected the listing. After I won the coin, he thanked me again by adjusting the price for my honesty. Needless to say, I frequent this sellers auctions on a regular basis. I may not always win, but I'm not as worried about dealing with sellers remorse.

Ken

meos1

A completed sale is a completed sale.... End of story.

Dan

CarlWohlforth

I believe it was an honest mistake on the seller's part. I change my mind and agree you did the right thing by letting them off the hook. I only hope that someone emails me as soon as they notice me making a similar mistake so I can fix the auction before it finishes.