"Any fool can undergrade" or is it "any fool can get undergraded" PCGS Blind???
clackamas
Posts: 5,615 ✭
I purchased this coin in an old NGC holder, the grade is stated as MS66. The coin is a sight to behold and I was able to compare it side by side with 4 other MS67's from both services not to mention 4 other 66's from the same date from both services. The biding on all of the other 66's was non existant, I probably over paid but the big boys at the Heritage auction all went after this coin as well so they must have seen the same thing I saw, a PQ coin graded as MS66.
Here is what Heritage said about the coin - I assume they have seen a few of these
"A more common date in lower grades, it is rather unusual to locate a 1911-D Double Eagle in MS66 condition. This is a spectacular coin. The surfaces have a fine, matte-like granularity that is covered with bright satiny luster. Fully struck in all areas, the dominant color is a bright apricot-gold. Other than a couple of trivial nicks, near the obverse center, this premium quality Gem seems virtually pristine. "
I did a awesome crack job and sent the coin to PCGS - Are they crazy? Am I crazy? This was the most fantastic MS66 at the entire auction and it is not a 66 it is a 65, a mere GEM and not a Superb GEM?
2 21554859 1911-D $20 USA MS65
Date Received: 04/08/2004
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
Link
Link to a coin from same date ... MS65
Here is what Heritage said about the coin - I assume they have seen a few of these
"A more common date in lower grades, it is rather unusual to locate a 1911-D Double Eagle in MS66 condition. This is a spectacular coin. The surfaces have a fine, matte-like granularity that is covered with bright satiny luster. Fully struck in all areas, the dominant color is a bright apricot-gold. Other than a couple of trivial nicks, near the obverse center, this premium quality Gem seems virtually pristine. "
I did a awesome crack job and sent the coin to PCGS - Are they crazy? Am I crazy? This was the most fantastic MS66 at the entire auction and it is not a 66 it is a 65, a mere GEM and not a Superb GEM?
2 21554859 1911-D $20 USA MS65
Date Received: 04/08/2004
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
Link
Link to a coin from same date ... MS65
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Please compare the 2 coins from the links. >>
That PCGS MS65 looks like hell. There was a big doobie going around the grading room when that one came in.
Russ, NCNE
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
These gold coins look far worse in the pics than they do in real life. That MS65 is probably a very nice coin. The lighting accentuates every flaw, I choose that one at random. I will attempt to find another that is "PQ".
<< <i>These gold coins look far worse in the pics than they do in real life. >>
Most coins do in jumbo sized images, but that one has at least a couple dozen visible hits on the obverse. Compared to the NGC example that you won, it is a clearly inferior coin.
Russ, NCNE
Send it again if your sure pcgs is wrong.
Link
Here are some MS66's - same date
Link PCGS MS66 1911-D
Link
Link
Some MS67's for you. MS67 not as nice I compared this with my coin side by side
>>>What grade were you hoping for? - Yes if I was simply trying to convert between the holders it would not have mattered and I should have left it in the holder it was in. The 2 hits in the abdomen are a negative but 1 is "as struck" it has luster in it, The fields are perfect on my coin and that is what made me think that it had a 67 shot.
I was looking for 67
<< <i>I know there are some conspiracy theorists out there >>
It's more than a theory. Holder bias does exist at PCGS. Anybody who believes otherwise hasn't submitted enough to know one way or the other.
Russ, NCNE
I would keep sending it back til it becomes a 66. It's worth a few tries anyway.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>How many crossovers did you submit before you decided that Russ? >>
Early on, a total of 31 from various services (mostly NGC and ANACS); 22 of which were later cracked out and graded at or above the grade they were in the previous holder. The other nine were legitimate DNCs. Even after that experience I still tried one more recently. Same result.
Russ, NCNE
Maybe the nicks weren't so trivial after all.
I agree, presidential review is a waste of time and money. Daivd just looks for an excuse as to why they were right the first time regardless of how blatantly they were incorrect. I have had 2 coins upgrade after Daivd told me why they should be 66's and not 67's. 1 of those coins was said to have the look of a "68" in a heritage auction. It was David Pooles 58-P in 67RD, probably the finest know 58-P Lincoln. Was first graded MS66 and presidential reviewed as 66 then magically upgraded.
That 2¢ that you tried to cross that got a dnc you cracked it out and it got a bodybag right?
Then you resubitted it a third time and got a 65.
Does that result say much with subitting the coin in the holder when it was bodbagged once when raw?
I think it has more to do with the grader(s) who happen to get your coin more than anything.
Look at the pcgs grading contest and the ex pcgs graders scores.
If they were still at pcgs many of those coins would have gotten a different grade.
Clackamas Mr. Hall has said pcgs has a gold "expert" who does just the gold coins.
If you send in only gold coins odds are good that this person will grade your coin.
If you mix your submission with non gold coins odds are good someone else will grade it.