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Bonds v. Good Pitchers

Clemens made him look foolish, and Wells took care of him tonight...when is the next time he faces
Roy Oswalt, the record awaits!

JS

Comments

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kevin
    You don't fool Bonds forever - let's see the next go around and then reevaluate.
    Mike
    Mike
  • BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, I guess Bonds is all washed up. At least he's way better than Soriano in the errors department.

    Grow up and smell a clue Joe.

    BOTR
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Enter JoeStalin:
    Mike
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    LOL Are you still comparing the job a shortstop and second basemen has to do with what Bonds
    has to do? I don't remember Soriano falling on his wallet in game 6 of the world series? Ask Sid
    Bream about defense!

    Do you really want to talk about Bones and defense???LOL I think you better back up and try another
    route.....the Ted Williams comparisons don't look that bad..oh wait, yeah they do!

    Nevermind

    JS
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JS


    << <i> I don't remember Soriano falling on his wallet in game 6 of the world series >>


    I can't dispute that but if we are looking at his career which would be more productive with respect to evaluating him - yes, 2nd base, SS vs. OF - apples and oranges - but w/respect to OF'ers - what does Bonds have? Like 8 gold gloves? Or, respectfully, am I off base with what you are tryin to say?
    Mikeimage
    Mike
  • Yeah, Bonds with 659 hrs can't hit good pitching. And I guess Mays, Ruth and Aaron are in the same boat?
    We are always better off than we deserve. image
  • BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    JoeS,
    Go back to discussing your Topps Heritage stuff; you don't seem like such a fool there.

    When you talk about Bonds, etc., your frothing at the mouth and intelligence run parallel to each other, flying under the radar screen and into the side of a mountain.

    BOTR


  • << <i> I don't remember Soriano falling on his wallet in game 6 of the world series? Ask Sid
    Bream about defense!

    Do you really want to talk about Bones and defense???LOL I think you better back up and try another
    route.....the Ted Williams comparisons don't look that bad..oh wait, yeah they do!

    Nevermind

    JS >>



    Yeah, but I don't remember Bonds getting benched in the World Series like Soriano did last year. And when he did play, he was horrible!!!


    TheRoach




    image
    7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Actually I remember Soriano hitting a homer in his first world series game. We all know he can make
    errors, he only has one more than Jeter this year...a we going to call Jeter a liablity at SS? There hasn't
    been anyone in the majors who has come close to 40/40 since....well you know who

    Why do we bring up homers when we are talking about defense? Why do we bring up gold gloves when
    he has made several of the biggest fielding errors, losing his team a NLCS and a world series? Why
    do we bring up Ruth, Mays and Aaron when he doesn't have more homers than any of them?

    Why are we afraid to say that without roids Bonds is just another Fred McGriff or Palmeiro...well
    without the nice guy thing.

    Will there still be Bonds fans here when he test positve for roids or breaks down like they all do?

    Im betting not.

    JS
  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭


    << <i>...a we going to call Jeter a liablity at SS?
    JS >>



    By most objective analysis, Jeter is a liability at SS.
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    I've been reading various Bonds threads since I started dialing in here and it seems to come down to this - you either love him or you hate him. Compared to his modern day counterparts - it is tough to argue against Bonds as the greatest player of the modern era. The fact that he is an insolent, thankless, race-card-playing, bite the hand that feeds you jackass is his scarlet letter that prevents him, deservedly so, from consideration as "the greatest" of all times, or to even be mentioned in the same breath as Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, Lou Gerhig and many others. He spits on the institution of baseball and the fans. He missed the lesson that Cal Ripken, Sosa, McGuire, Griffey Jr. etc were exemplifing for the modern player when they saved the modern game - and helped to continue to prop up his exhorbitant earnings. He will take his place in baseball history along side Ty Cobb, at best.

    You cannot compare his accomplishments, steriods or not, with the greats of history.

    I saw a mention to Ted Williams in this thread. How about we send Barry Bonds for a couple of tours of duty as a fighter pilot protecting our country in the prime of his career and see how he makes out.

    OK, Bonds is now the single season home run king. The year Ruth hit 60 - he hit more home runs than the sum of the rest of the TEAMS in the league combined (ex the Yanks - Gehrig hit 47). And oh, by the way, Ruth had to take trains to all his games. And, also by the way, Ruth has World Series wins as a pitcher.

    Speaking of Gehrig - the man died at age 37. Although it is unfortunate that his disease is yet uncured - what kind of numbers would he have put up if he was still playing in good health at over 40 years of age.

    Bonds loves to play the race card BS. Would love to see how he would have faired when subjected to what Jackie Robinson went through. Or for that matter, what Hank Aaron and Willie Mays still had to go through. For that matter, Hank Greenberg not only served our country in the prime of his career, but was doused with similar predudice for being a jew.

    Bottom line, Bonds has great stats. There is more than stats to baseball. It is an American institution. Keep mention to him as a great player to modern discussion. I must say though, any comparision to Soriano is nuts. Everyone has his number now.

    Now off my soap box.



    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • a bigger question must be asked when speaking about gehrig...how many years did he play with als, not knowing and how did that effect is performance?


    My 1955 Topps Set
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    DirtyHarry...Thank You! I thought I was the only one here seeing that. I did a comparison a while
    back Bonds v Ted Williams comparing them at bat to at bat....Bonds wasn't even in the same
    neighborhood.

    JS
  • kuhlmannkuhlmann Posts: 3,326 ✭✭
    """"Ruth had to take trains to all his games. And, also by the way, Ruth has World Series wins as a pitcher.""""

    NOT TAKING ANY SIDES HERE BUT THAT IS A QUOTE THAT ALWAYS MADE ME THINK!!! Do we actually think RUTH would be pitching in games today!! H#ll no!!! Since ruth was pitching back then, then pitching was week. Sorry for all the Ruth people here ( i love the legends as much as anybody) but ruth would'nt get a start these days.
    Fact is i hate Bonds(never met the guy so hate is a bad word here) but he is the best player steroids or not(we have no idea when they started or who took them) to have played the game!
  • QUICK! Somebody make a reply to this thread that actually has to do with this particluar forum.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nathan
    You make a good point but heck you just jumped on the JS 'runaway train' - I did a search and this has been going on at least two years - so I'm just on for the ride and enjoying the view.
    Mikeimage
    Mike
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    Kuhlmann - respectfully, I don't think there is any foundation to make a case that Ruth was not a superior pitcher, or would not be worthy of pitching today. It is tough to compare players from different eras...that's part of my point. If we put Barry Bonds in a time machine and sent him back to the 1920's, would he post the kind of stats he has today? He would be hitting softer baseballs, would be playing in larger ballparks, would have no Nautilis machine, no modern medicine, no personal trainer to "supplement" him, etc, etc...

    Ruths lifetime pitching stats:
    94W-46L .671, 1,221 innings pitched, 488 SO, 2.28 ERA.
    Led league in ERA 1916 - 1.75
    WS Record 2-0, .87 ERA

    So flip it over - what kind of offensive statistics would Ruth have ended his career with if he had not spent the bulk of five years of his career (1914-1919) as a pitcher rather than an every day player? He hit 49 home runs in those five years. In the remaining 15 years of his career he averaged 44 home runs per year.


    Sorry Nathan, the train keeps on rollin'.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • Hey Stalin,

    How is your Noles doing in baseball? I saw they just got ripped apart by *GASP*, The Hurricanes! Another reason the ACC is the weakest all around conference in sports.

    Maybe when Miami, VA Tech and BC start playing for the ACC you'll have something to talk about, for now the Big East is the Big Beast in every sports conference.


    As for Bonds and Soriano, he got benched in last years series and then shipped out of town to the Rangers, that's all I need to know to understand that Soriano is not thought off very highly in the baseball world.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Soriano, he got benched in last years series and then shipped out of town to the Rangers, that's all I need to know to understand that Soriano is not thought off very highly in the baseball world. >>


    Glenn
    I'm not one to make any direct comparisons about Bonds v. Soriano. But Soriano, IMO, is a world class athlete that is suffering from being 'moved' and possibly moved again - his numbers so far this season don't look that bad and as it goes for the last two years, he has batted nearly 300, with 77 HR's and 76 SB's - this is a true 40/40 calibre player. His fielding % is respectible considering the guy can just about play anywhere in the field. His slugging % and on base % of about 540 for the past two seasons is also good. On the right team - this guy is an impact player, again IMO. And as it goes for Bonds, I don't like the guy and didn't when he was with Pittsburg - but personality and possible enhancers, not withstanding, I think he is a total player careerwise and guys like Bonds only come around every so often.
    Mikeimage
    Mike
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