U.S. Mail Shipping Risk for Certified Coins ??
Stuart
Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'd be curious to get others' opinions of the inherent shipping risk involved when valuable type coins are returned to the owner after they have been graded by a third party grading service.
In this case I am considering only PCGS for this specific submission. I assume that PCGS returns the coins via Insured (Registered?) U.S Mail or do they prefer to use an overnight courier service such as FedEx or DHL?
I am very leery of the unreliability of the U.S. Mail, and this is a big risk-factor concern of mine in making the decision to have the coins slabbed. I can submit them in person in Las Vegas, and am wondering if I should have them shipped back to me or if it's worth it for me to fly to somewhere where I could physically pick them up from PCGS (Calif or a regional coin show)?
Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback and your experiences on this topic.
In this case I am considering only PCGS for this specific submission. I assume that PCGS returns the coins via Insured (Registered?) U.S Mail or do they prefer to use an overnight courier service such as FedEx or DHL?
I am very leery of the unreliability of the U.S. Mail, and this is a big risk-factor concern of mine in making the decision to have the coins slabbed. I can submit them in person in Las Vegas, and am wondering if I should have them shipped back to me or if it's worth it for me to fly to somewhere where I could physically pick them up from PCGS (Calif or a regional coin show)?
Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback and your experiences on this topic.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
09/07/2006
Once it is in the hands of another country's postal service, all control is lost. Domestic certified shouldn't have those problems, because it is always in control of USPS.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Does anyone have any experience using UPS or other courier services to other countries?
edited to add: Darktone, do you know if your package was lost by the USPS or the foreign postal service?
Check out the Southern Gold Society
09/07/2006
<< <i>Once it is in the hands of another country's postal service, all control is lost. Domestic certified shouldn't have those problems, because it is always in control of USPS. >>
Wrong, they can't even confirm it left the country! I mailed it a smaller branch office that did not have a computer to log in the registered numbers( I found this out after the package was lost!) so they say my package can not be traced. Also for those that read this that were not around this forum when the Newport Beach postal employee thefts occurred- there was more than one registered package containing coins that was stolen. I lost a package that was insured for something like $3,000 but mine was sent priority and I have since learned that priority is a joke and that high dollar small priority packages are just waiting to be taken home by non-postal employee's that contract for mail delivery. mike
Don
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I find it hard to believe that the USPS says your package can't be traced - registered mail is too important a product to the USPS for them to mess around with it like that. Personally, I'd complain bigtime - letters to the Postmaster General, your congressman, etc., all with copies to the postmaster of the station you mailed your package at!
As far as the Newport Beach thefts, didn't the Postal Inspectors jump all over that fairly quickly? (You can't really guard against thieves totally, but I understand that the Postal Inspectors are quick to protect the reputation of Registered Mail.)
Check out the Southern Gold Society
If memory serves, it went on for a few months. I think it's the exception rather than the rule, but it pays to keep good records none the less.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>FedEx or DHL >>
I wouldn't rate these two any higher than the U.S.P.S.
In fact in my shipping adventures the score is:
Fedex: 1 package sent and lost/stolen--never used again
U.S.P.S. registered: Many sent--none lost
Coverage is limited to $25,000 on shipments within the US.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
42/92
<< <i> find it hard to believe that the USPS says your package can't be traced - registered mail is too important a product to the USPS for them to mess around with it like that. Personally, I'd complain bigtime - letters to the Postmaster General, your congressman, etc., all with copies to the postmaster of the station you mailed your package at! >>
Dave, I have complained to everyone with no help. I even had a buddy that works for the local post office check into it for me and try to track it and he said they could find no trace of it in the system- he said just to sit back and collect your $40.45 and write the rest off as lost because that's all I would get out of it. I gave up on ever hearing anything.
<< <i>As far as the Newport Beach thefts, didn't the Postal Inspectors jump all over that fairly quickly? (You can't really guard against thieves totally, but I understand that the Postal Inspectors are quick to protect the reputation of Registered Mail.) >>
No these thefts lasted for several months! The earliest report on this forum if my memory is correct was early November and they were still occuing until the thief was caught sometime in late April I think? And these are just from the ones that were reported here by forum members- it could have started much earlier. I remember when my claim was filed they said they had numerous complaints already. I think my package was mailed in January and I had to wait 30 days to do a claim. I think about a hundred people checked in here to say they lost packages and I would estimate that was only a fraction of how many lost. I have talked to sveral people that settled with the post office for a fraction of the insured value and a few were denied any reimbursement at all. mike
I send all transactions over 250.00 by registered mail, sometimes I dont charge the buyer the full amount to do that, but I do it for my protection and to ensure delivery of goods shipped.
Plain ol Insured mail is really designed to give a replacement value on an item shipped that has been damaged or lost in transit. Not really secure, as it is not signed for and can simply be left in your box, somewhere in route, etc. I usually send lower dollar items this method, but do the packages up tight, and not identify the type of contents so it will hopefully detour someone from rifiling.
The comments about oversea's registered mail is pretty much what I have been told. Once it leaves the US, its pretty much out of the USPS hands, and responsiblity. I also believe the max value reimbursement goes down to 750.00.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Xpipe: I think the biggest difference between Registered and Insured is the level of security. A Registered Mail Package is insured, and has to be signed in and signed out of every Office is passes through, and you probally have to sign for it when you recieve, but I might be wrong. >>
Acutally, it is signed into each individual's hand who touches it... not just each PO. And yes, the last signature is the recipient.
Jeremy
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
why did you register a $40 package?
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
<< <i>but you will get paid >>
You must show proof of the insured items value before you are paid on a large claim. On my $3,000 loss my claim was denied the first time! I had to really fight to get my money! Many others settled for a small fraction of the insured amount and some were never paid a cent
I've had two packages stolen by the USPS enroute to PCGS, one Priority Mail & one REGISTERED. Both were insured. I've never had any
problems receiving packages back from PCGS.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I may do a show-level grading on my 1799 Bust Dollar if I decide to get it certified, so that I can avoid the potential shipping risk.
With a total of about 25 coins, I'm trying to mimimize the grading fees...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
This last week I sent a letter via Registered, and went to the USPS website and signed up for Email updates. It worked pretty neat - I got a little note each day showing where, when, and how my package was doing. It only spent a couple days in transit, but I liked that email feature. (and the price!)
Furthermore, my little local post office has upgraded recently to computerized printouts of everything. So I got a Registered receipt with a printout of the RA number, which cannot be incorrect. Last year I had one where the postal employee mis-wrote the number on my receipt, and I never could track it.
I could see how an employee might intentionally give a customer the wrong RA number, and then steal the package. Not likely, by any stretch, but it could happen. But with the new computers and scanners - I think its even more secure.
The real risk seems to be in running into one of these theives when he/she is at the start of his/her criminal activity...a time when complaints have yet to be filed. This is why we buy insurance.
Most everyone here seems to understand the importance of "First class registered insured." It is very inexpensive for the obvious added measures of safety. However, I am not so sure as others that the recipient must actually sign for the package. Sure enough, everyone and their brother at the USPS has to sign for the package while it is in transit, but I think they can just throw it on the recipient's porch as delivered without obtaining a signature. A dishonest mail carrier could just pretend he delivered the package. A passer-by could steal the package from the recipient's porch. Heck, the recipient himself could be a thief and claim he never received the package. For all these reasons I have always paid the extra $1.50 so that I receive my self-addressed postcard or "return receipt" with the recipient's own signature as solid proof of their receipt.
I wonder if there would have been any thefts at the Newport Beach Post Office if everyone had also requested a return receipt.
Yep, I can be long-winded, but there is one more thing of critical importance when shipping coins, precious metals, or jewels. Please always abbreviate the recipient's company name. For example:
address your package to PCGS, NOT Professional Coin Grading Service; Heritage RCG, NOT Heritage Rare Coin Galleries. I hope all this helps.
Regards,
Dan Lay
PS I certainly hope some more folks help me out on my Mercury Trumpet Tail S thread. So far, Don is the only person kind enough to help me out and make me feel welcome here as a new member. I hope to hear from some additional helpful and friendly people today.
I receive my self-addressed postcard or "return receipt" with the recipient's own signature as solid proof of their receipt.
That may be a bad assumption. A few months ago I received an Insured package - it wasn't Registered - but all I had to do was present the Yellow "Come get your package" Card at the post office, and sign for the package. No one ever checked my ID to see if I was indeed the person on the address label, or that I signed my actual name. They sat the box on the table, where someone could see the name before signing for it.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
e-mail me here
WINNER:
POTD 8-30-05 (awarded by dthigpen)
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GSAGUY Slam 12-10-04
I complained to them because my mailperson wasn't bringing packages to the door, just leaving slips. I got an apology and it hasn't happened since.
<< <i> I receive my self-addressed postcard or "return receipt" with the recipient's own signature as solid proof of their receipt.
That may be a bad assumption. A few months ago I received an Insured package - it wasn't Registered - but all I had to do was present the Yellow "Come get your package" Card at the post office, and sign for the package. No one ever checked my ID to see if I was indeed the person on the address label, or that I signed my actual name. They sat the box on the table, where someone could see the name before signing for it.
"That may be a bad assumption."
You are absolutely correct, Fishcooker. I never thought of that possibility.
Nonetheless, first class registered, insured, return receipt requested has been the industry standard for at least a couple decades. As I remember the precious metals and jewelry industries lobbied Congress and the USPS years ago for a safe way to ship valuables. They came up with a great system in my opinion. I have shipped by this method at least a couple hundred times without loss or damage.
Check out the FAQ's at PCGS, and you will find they recommend registered insured and also suggest return receipt as a way of knowing when PCGS has received your coins.
Thanks for the friendly welcome, Stuart! I feel better now.
Dan
Several years ago I endured pitiful service from FedEx on nearly a daily basis for months. When the time came for our $5 Million multi-year shipping contract renewal, I vetoed it.
Guess what I observed them doing nearly every day at 10:30AM with small fragile packages. They were playing football...and of course they would spike the "ball" after every touchdown. I live in Cincinnati; I compared notes with an audio dealer in Las Vegas; he said he has also witnessed the "fragile item football games." I am afraid they may have an underground football league across the nation.
Registered/ Insured mail. If I give you the tracking # it says the same thing today as it said day one,
that it was accepted at the post office it was mailed from. THAT'S IT! The message has not changed
in 3 weeks. If everybody has to sign for it then how come nobody knows where the hell it is?
March has been the Month from Hell as far as incoming mail is concerned....also lost was a shipment
drom David Lawrence Rare Coins. I placed an order with them and 24 hours placed an even more
expensive one. Order #2 made it but #1 is MIA.
Order #3...another package never got here! By now I am livid!
I've lived in this same spot since 1986 and there isn't a week that goes by that my carriers
do not screw up. They have forgotten to have me sign the Green card that people pay good money to
have returned to them. My mail goes either across the street to the Health Spa or down the road to
the Veterinary clinic and vice versa. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS?
I've been given the Spa owner's credit card statement along with the vet's and vice versa. By now I
wanna put my foot in somebody's Ace!
Nooooo...it's NOT just a local problem either, if that's what you're thinking. Last year a package from the US Mint, properly addressed wound up being delivered 100 miles away from here. Suffice to say
that everyone from the carrier, the counter workers, the mail sorters, the local postmaster all the way up to the Big Boppa Postmaster know me by Name. How this one carrier keeps his job is beyond me.
The only part that gets done right is when I do the shipping. Incoming SUCKS! I have come
to truly detest the USPS. I've had to change credit card numbers several times because of their incompetence.
They left me a hand-written notice of attempted delivery at the house, that said I could pick up the package at their warehouse after 8:30 PM.
Drove 15 miles over there, and found that they closed at 8:00 PM, not 8:30 PM. The odd thing about it was that I was NOT the only guy there. There were 4 other cars there with similar notices - "after 8:30 PM". We all left empty-handed. I think this was not a one-time thing and not an accident.
The next day by total luck I was home when they attempted delivery for the last time, but the whole situation left me suspicious, to say the least........