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On the stupidity of our fellow collectors
Boopotts
Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
I was browsing the 'bay this evening, and discovered something that about knocked me flat; i.e., that a raw, ungraded Lebron James rookie is typically selling for the same or slightly more than a like card in a PSA 9 holder. Can somebody please explain this? At first I thought the logic might be that the raw card has a better chance of '10'ing, but that can't be it, since a bulk of the high bidders have feedback under 200, which at least suggests that they're probably not collector's club members.
Also, while we're on the subject of idiots collecting sportscards, I also noticed that BCCG 10's sell for more than PSA 9's. AND, so as not to exclude the PSA faithful from this little tirade, that the most graded card from the 2000 Topps Chrome Traded set is--no, not Cabrera-- but J.R. House.
Anyway, I posted this because I'm curious to see what other, ah, 'hobby quirks' you guys have unearthed in your virtual travels. I found these little nuggets, and that was only after about 45 min. of searching. God only knows what else goes on.
Also, while we're on the subject of idiots collecting sportscards, I also noticed that BCCG 10's sell for more than PSA 9's. AND, so as not to exclude the PSA faithful from this little tirade, that the most graded card from the 2000 Topps Chrome Traded set is--no, not Cabrera-- but J.R. House.
Anyway, I posted this because I'm curious to see what other, ah, 'hobby quirks' you guys have unearthed in your virtual travels. I found these little nuggets, and that was only after about 45 min. of searching. God only knows what else goes on.
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The Lebron was an insert that was only a 1/2 in PSA-10 and the Carmelo was his standard Fleer Tradition rookie. Stupid me! I though I hit the jackpot when these came back as 10's. This modern stuff is such a hit or miss. Perhaps these 2 guys haven't got enough publicity...jay
My LeBron James PSA-10 auction
My Carmelo Anthony PSA-10 auction
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
If a '10" is guaranteed mint or better; would it cross over
to at least a 9 in a BGS holder? I wonder if anyone has ever tried
that.....or does Beckett laugh at it's own junk product.
Got my first BCCG 9 as a freebie/extra on a purchase.
Should be "crap or better". Don't know if the pic came up.
Eagle
LOL! I actually saw that Lebron (or was it Carmelo?) auction of yours, where a 1 of 2 card sold for just under 20 bucks. I couldn't believe it was YOU selling it, so I actually went to your feedback to see if it was the same guy!
I can't figure out the modern stuff-- I just can't. I wish I could, and I'm starting to try, but it just doesn't make any sense. But I think it definitely behooves any collector/dealer to learn more about it, since the market is so dynamic. Still, I admit it's a trial.. For example, I'll check the completed auctions to gauge market prices, and I'll see an Upper Deck something-or-another sell for 100$, then another one sell for 70 a few days later, and I've got to go BACK and check the first something-or-another to make sure it's the same as the second, and not some parallel or insert
To guys like Jason, Beachbum, Joestalin, etc. who keep up on this stuff, I've really got to hand it to you. It's not easy.
Boopotts, how right you are. I have been looking for a nice Lebron refractor for weeks now, since I can't pull one even after 11 boxes of Topps Chrome breaks. 2 nights ago, I spot a nice PSA 9 black (# to 500) refractor. This is a $300 card, and raw copies are selling for at least $150-$200 if they aren't badly off-center. I got this one for $162, maybe no one wanted it in a 9? Whatever, I am quite happy with a professionally graded mint example of a killer modern card.
But that's the weird thing-- why wouldn't an insert bring any money? I would assume that an insert is harder to pull than the regular issue (at least in a set with no SP's, and I'm not sure if the set in question qualifies), so you'd think it would be worth more-- or at least not worth substantually less.
That's what makes the whole modern card market so incomprehensible to those of us whose idea of an insert starts and stops with a deckle edge. It just doesn't stand up to reason.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Jay, I think the problem is that the audience for those cards isn't as concerned with them being in PSA holders, and what the significance of it being a PSA 10 adds to the card. To the younger card fan (who the lower end inserts and base rookies appeal to), a PSA slab isn't necessarily going to drive them into a bidding frenzy. The more sophisticated modern collector (people like myself, and the guys you mentioned earlier) are looking for the higher end cards and autos, and can appreciate a PSA 10 for what it's worth, and bid accordingly.
Boopotts, I will leave the whole insert debate answer for one of the other modern collectors to answer, since I can't really explain it. In theory, you are right...inserts are harder to pull, but unless the card is an auto card (or a refractor), no one cares. Beckett might say this particular insert is worth $20 or $25 dollars, and in most cases, you can't get $2 for it. Game used cards are quite overdone at the moment also, and just as tough to sell. Modern wax can drive you nuts, since you can pay $100++ for a box of cards, and often times not get 25% of your money back on them (if you tried to sell them on Ebay or at a show).
PSA is better than BGS. BGS rules the modern world. Their cards sell for more across the board.
BGS9 does not equal PSA 9...maybe 8.5. Beckett started off grading hard and actually established
themselves as the better grader in many collectors eyes, and while I think they are no longer
tough the notion is still there and you can see it in sell prices.
As far as basketball, you all are trying to figure out the most volitle sport there is. There are many
young collectors in this sport. The hype with Lebron is amazing and he is producing...and so
are the companies....last month it was SPx, now it is SPA, next month it will be Ultimate. If you
had a Lebron card that sold for 100 last month, it will NOT be selling for 100 this month, there
are just too many other better rookies, and to tell you the truth if it isn't signed it will not
hold its value. The basketball collector wants what is new and hot.
So what is going to be worth more....a rookie card that is numbered to 500 inserted 1:24 or an
insert numbered to 100 inserted 1:244??
The rookie card will be worth more everytime! How crucial was beckett declaring that Tiger
Woods rookie card was 2001 UD? VERY!
That Lebron card you sold is very nice, and looks to be foil and the guy got a steal for 26 bucks.....that
alone should tell us what inserts are worth! The only exception would be the Jambalya insert
set from EX. and on a side note population reports mean nothing, what hurts more is that
you can't access the PSA reports for free.....we all know that 1/2 PSA 10's one week isn't
always true when the auction ends!
You can't use the same rules you use when you are talking about PSA vintage, it just doens't
translate. In todays modern market the graded card means far less, especially in football and
basketball, and if someone is looking for a modern graded card they are usually looking for BGS one.
Hope this helps
Kevin
I could be wrong, but I don't think their popularity is because they grade surfaces tougher. What percentage of collectors can consistently tell an 8.5 surface from a 9 or a 9 from a 9.5 anyway? I know *I* haven't been able to on many occasions. IMO, that, along with slightly tighter centering requirements, is the only difference between the two companies - all trimming aside.
I would think that most new "collectors" wouldn't care if the card is graded or not, much less who it graded by.
These "collectors" know when the card is a rookie card or a insert. They have the current issue of Beckett by the computer. I think the problem is Beckett shows the price of a graded card at the back of the price guide. Most new "collectors" would not think to look for modern cards there. Too much work?
Either all that or it is much easier for a modern collector to store a lot more raw cards in a binder than to keep all graded cards. Please remember that a lot of the new collectors that do collect are young. Teenagers, perhaps, that have their first income and still live at home in a small bedroom.
We were all there at one time.
Maybe the market has been diluted. But who cares? Yes, you can by lebron rc's for 10 bucks a whack, slabbed, but you can also buy '68 commons in PSA 8 holders for the same price. Has the market for '68 PSA 8's been diluted as well? I'd say it has. But does that make any difference to the guy trying to put the set together? No.
I don't screw around with modern cards much, because the market is so volitile and I can rarely figure out what's what. Like most vintage guys here, I can't tell an xfractor from a refractor, etc. etc., so I just stay away from it all. But it's important to note that my choice to largely avoid the modern market is due to my own laziness, not to any inherent defects in the modern market itself. Vintage collectors who don't collect modern because 'there's too many cards, and that's ruined the hobby' are working from assumptions, not facts-- a distinction that's worth making.
If it makes you feel any better, this psa graded modern card only sold for a fourth of your graded carmelo 10.
Link
But, of course, that buyer also had to spring for priority shipping at an unspecified amount. It might have really sold for a premium otherwise.