Help Grading a 1990 no s Proof Lincoln (Pictures Added)

moosesr

I have a 1990 proof lincoln I was thinking of sending in for grading and I noticed a very small tarnish spot on the steps of the Lincoln memorial and a few particles of something scattered on the coin surface. Any opinions on how this would affect the grade, can it get a PR69DCAM with any visible blemishes? I am planning on sending the complete set in so I don't take a chance on getting fingerprints or damaging the coins.





I am going to try and get some better closeups.



You can see the tarnish on the steps in between the two columns next to Lincoln.


Thanks,
Charlie

CarlWohlforth

That doesn't sounds like a 69 DCAM to me, most 69 DCAM look perfect to me until I get out my loupe. I see you have one as your icon. Is this a special coin or date?

merz2

On a recent submittal to PCGS,I had (2) Proof Lincolns that had similar problems and received a grade of PR64.I resubmitted them for Presidential Review.I was informed by David Hall that these minor problems reduced the grade,and in his opinion the grade was correct.I hope this helps. Naturally I don't agree.While it makes them not PR68,I believe that reducing these (2) coins to PR64 was a little harsh.So the assumtion that hairlines is the predominate criteria is totally false.

moosesr

Carl, It is a no s cent like my icon. I had hoped it would be a MS69DCAM when I bought the set. If you know where to look, the small blemish can just barely be seen without a loupe so I guess I might as well keep the coin in the proof set if it won't grade PR68 or 69. I am also worried about possible additional tarnish caused by the proof set packaging and the small particles I can see on the coin. Without a loupe, none of the blemishes are noticeable.

Charlie

ss350camaro

a 1990 no S ??? !! Are you serious??

If it has a chance at a PR68 i would send it in in a heartbeat !!

Steve

Charlie,
First, you have a very rare coin. The coin needs to get out of that proof set and into a top tier slab ASAP. The US Mint holders are not good for very valuable coins. This coin has jumped in value from about $2,000 to $5,000 in the last two years. It will probably go up from there based on the fact that there are probably no more than 200 to 300 in existance. It is true that your coin may grade out as low as 65 because of the problems, but PCGS may decide to market grade it slightly higher. Take a look at the populations. They are real numbers. There are not too many proof sets sitting around that will boost those numbers too much after 14 years! Good luck with your coin. Steve

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

moosesr

PCGS will not grade the coins higher than pr68.Getting a pr 69 is impossible.

Stewart

Russ

<< <i>Help Grading a 1990 no s Proof Lincoln >>



Strange. It didn't say "no s" in the title until right around:



<< <i>Edited: Thursday April 01, 2004 at 7:03 PM by moosesr >>





Russ, NCNE

moosesr

I was able to get some pictures that show the tarnish. You can see the tarnish on the steps in between the two columns next to Lincoln.
I was going to send in the whole set for grading, but wondered if PCGS would remove the pieces of dust that are on the coin before slabbing? Also, how easy is it to break open the 1990 proof set plastic case to remove the cent.

Thanks,
Charlie

Dennis88

<< <i>moosesr

PCGS will not grade the coins higher than pr68.Getting a pr 69 is impossible.

Stewart >>



Why is that??

Dennis

CarlWohlforth

Nice! I didn't even notice the lack of S when I first looked. I think you can just send in the set as is. I would want it in a PCGS holder regardless of grade. Personally I'd be a bit nervous trying to blow off the dust. I seem to mess up everytime I try something like that.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Dennis 88

Its worth too much money .Modern proofs tend to tarnish and spot.The mint processes the coins before packing.Sometimes there is improper mixing of the alloys.liability if the coin deteriorates in the holder has to be a factor in grading.

Stewart

Russellp23

How do you tell the difference between a no "S" and a "P"

Russ

<< <i>How do you tell the difference between a no "S" and a "P" >>



Proofs are only S mint.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

<< <i>How do you tell the difference between a no "S" and a "P" >>

All circulation types struck as proofs are minted in San Francisco right now, and have been for a few decades--all proofs should carry the S mint mark.

Jeremy

kranky

<< <i>How do you tell the difference between a no "S" and a "P" >>



All proof coins that year have (were supposed to have) "S" mintmarks. Because it's clear the coin is proof, that's how it can be determined that it is the "No S" error.

1centlincoln

It would probably be good to send it in and slab it. I've already had so many Lincoln proofs in their original mint casing that have turned on me and probably won't even grade DC anymore. Even if this came back less than a 68 or 69 DC, it would probably hold its value better. I just noticed the increase in value over the past year alone...a 69 sold for $9775 March 2003 and the last 2 sold for $14,950 (July 2003 and March 2004). Even the 68 went from $3450 March 2003 to $4,140 July 2003 to $7475 Sept 2003.

moosesr

I just took another photograph and noticed the coin has some doubling on "AMERICA" on the reverse. Anyone know if all these no s cents have this doubling.




Charlie

1centlincoln

What kind of proof set is the Lincoln in? It doesn't look like the plastic I'm used to seeing around the modern US coin proofs. I've never heard of any doubling occurring on the 1990 No S proof. It looks more like strike doubling from the scan.

moosesr

It's in a regular proof set.

rdunnit

What about sending it to NCS first. Just a thought. I am not very informed at how NCS does with copper. But at least they would be able to blow the Proof set particles off of it.

merz2

I would not send it to NCS.The coins value and the chance of mishandling it would be to great IMHO.

1centlincoln

Then again, there was a 1990 "Premier" proof set sold at the Portland auction last week and the 1990 "No S" that remained in the set was given an estimated grade of PR67DCAM. That set sold for $8625.

jdimmick

Judging from the pic's, which are impossible to grade coins, not to mention it being copper and even further a Proof Dcam. I am going to say it will grade Pf-66 or 67DCam at PCGS.

Do not send it to NCS or handle it too much prior to submittal, more chance of damage. I would be more worried about PCGS fingerprinting it then myself this past year. Hopefully some of that has subsided.

I also agree, it does need to come out of that proof set holder for risk of potential damage or deterioration.

jim

1centlincoln

Just saw a PR69DC that sold in Santa Clara (Superior Auctions) a few minutes ago for $14,375. The last 3 69DCs that sold were all in the same price range. What would the 66-68 go for? Are they all that difficult to find or is the price so high in the 68 and 69? I've heard numbers ranging from 100-300 of these in existence. What is the reason they're achieving such high prices? Is it because of the type of error.....something that should have been totally preventable?

mozeppa

for what its worth my 90 "no s looks a lot better than these photos indicate (not bashing yours) but mine only made 68.

merz2

moosesr
If you decide to sell it let me know.Even with minor problems,it is a collectable & Registry Set coin.IMHO

onlylincolns

I currently own two -- one I am holding onto which is a 68 DCAM

The second a 66 DCAM is going for auction in the Heritage CSNS at the beginning of May.

moosesr

onlylincolns, How does the look of your 66DCAM compare to your 68DCAM? Does the 66DCAM have any noticeable blemishes?

Charlie

Sequitur

There's a 1990 no-S Prestige Proof set on Fleebay right now. Link. No affiliation with seller.

onlylincolns

Charlie:

Yes, the 66DCAM has a tiny area of tan color northwest of the first 9.

merz2

moosesr
Is it the Prestige Proof Set or a plain Proof Set ? The packaging was better on the Prestige Sets.

moosesr

It is a plain proof set.

merz2

I would definitely break it out a submit it to PCGS or NGC !!!