Oh that's just SILLY. They're acting like the dollar has nothing behind it.
FOOLS!
A well-balanced family of no load mutual funds is all one needs. Course it would be nicer if there was any prospect for growth in em. Oh well, they make good writeoffs.
Time to buy tech stocks. Especially with the new decision that stock options are INDEED expenses and had they been treated that way would have cut earnings an average 61% last year.
rah rah rah for the good old elites.....er....meant Neocons.
<< Heh, we've dumped some at $6, $7 and looks like we'll be dumping around $8 as well. >>
If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate.
Hey Hey now..... last week this neocon picked off 4% in semiconductors, and rotated to drillers to pick off another percent. The only "Well Darn" is that gold stocks are back to where I sold them, so a decision has to be made.........
As those precious metals go up and up the dollar will go down down down, the interest rates will have to come up and up and here comes inflation again. Then, what are you going to do with all your over-priced real estate?
<< <i>As those precious metals go up and up the dollar will go down down down, the interest rates will have to come up and up and here comes inflation again. Then, what are you going to do with all your over-priced real estate?
Cladiator Yep I thought you were going to give it away at the time....I hope the dollar stays low for a while and let silver run....gold can hold steady, right where it is...let silver run.
Silver is going to have to keep going up in price before I can consider melting any of my Morgans, and I mean WAY up in price. Still, I remember when silver had a tough climb to get to $5.
People always fret about the national debt. I hope everybody realizes that the "national debt" is Treasury bonds, treasury notes, and the like. Every time you buy a savings bond, you're contributing to the national debt. If you have a money market fund, chances are it has some investment in Treasuries, and you're contributing to the national debt.
If there was no national debt, there would be no treasury bonds, notes, etc...and we would lose one of the safest (albeit very low yielding) investment vehicles out there...
<< <i>If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. >>
You would, eh? Perhaps you can tell me why silver is going to go down, in light of the following:
1) The world's above-ground supply of silver is decreasing by 2% per year (about 50-100 million ounces), since MORE silver is used in industry (and otherwise consumed) than is produced from mines.
2) The "historical" comment--yes, in a "history" dominated by SHORTS the price of silver has been notoriously low. When the silver shorters are permited to sell (that is, to short) 500,000,000 ounces of silver that they don't own. In fact, the short position is GREATER than an entire YEAR's worth of silver production.
3) Furthermore, regarding the "history" of silver: 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver exist solely on paper, the result of silver "leases." I lease you my silver for 2% interest. You then lease it to someone else for 2.2% interest, and he leases it to someone else for 2.4% interest, and that person uses it in an industrial process. Thus the silver, that is no longer existant, still shows up on the books--not once, but FOUR times. Of the 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver that exist on paper in the form of leases, perhaps 150 million ounces of silver actually exists--the rest is just paper.
So if you can tell me how silver, the only commodity to have a decreasing above-ground supply, and silver, the only commodity to be shorted more than it's annual production, and silver, the only commodity where ONE BILLION "ounces" exist only on paper--if you can show me how silver will not one day tear loose, force shorters to cover their shorts, bankrupt leasers, and break out--if you can present a cogent argument as to WHY silver must always be worth $4 an ounce, please, by all means, do.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
People always fret about the national debt. I hope everybody realizes that the "national debt" is Treasury bonds, treasury notes, and the like. Every time you buy a savings bond, you're contributing to the national debt. If you have a money market fund, chances are it has some investment in Treasuries, and you're contributing to the national debt.
If there was no national debt, there would be no treasury bonds, notes, etc...and we would lose one of the safest (albeit very low yielding) investment vehicles out there... >>
Then don't fret about it and based on that conclusion, hope that it continues to skyrocket
I really don't think it matters, 7.00, 8.00 an ounce, try to sell you junk silver at a coin show, you will still be lucky if you get 5 times, dealers just don't want to haul it home. It's better to do your homework and invest in one or two undervalued coins----------------------------------------BigE
<< dollardude seems to have lost his way and thinks he's on a yahoo message board >>
Yes, I will keep bashing precious metals, coins (as an investment -- not as a hobby), stamps, antiques, artwork, etc. as investments.
Let me quote Dave Ramsey's new book, The Total Money Makeover, concerning gold (silver is just as bad):
"The truth is that gold is a lousy investment with a long track record of mediocrity. The average rates of return tracked as far back as Napoleon are around 2 percent gain per year. In recent history, gold has a fifty-year track record of around 4.4 percent, about the same as inflation and just above savings accounts. During that same time frame, you would have made around 12 percent in a good growth-stock mutual fund. During those fifty years though, there has been incredible volatility and tons of risk. It is important to remember that gold is not used when economies fail. History shows that when an economy completely collapses, the first thing that appears is a black-market barter system, in which people trade items for other items or services. In a primitive culture, items of utility often become the medium of exchange, and the same is temporarily true in a failed economy."
No, I don't think we are in some unique place in history where precious metals suddenly become a good investment. IMO, you should sell any precious metals you may be stuck with, take your money, and RUN FAST!
Would you mind explaining WHY silver is "just as bad" as gold. No offense, but I'd like to see your assertion backed up by some facts. Specifically, please counter my previous post:
<< If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. >>
You would, eh? Perhaps you can tell me why silver is going to go down, in light of the following:
1) The world's above-ground supply of silver is decreasing by 2% per year (about 50-100 million ounces), since MORE silver is used in industry (and otherwise consumed) than is produced from mines.
2) The "historical" comment--yes, in a "history" dominated by SHORTS the price of silver has been notoriously low. When the silver shorters are permited to sell (that is, to short) 500,000,000 ounces of silver that they don't own. In fact, the short position is GREATER than an entire YEAR's worth of silver production.
3) Furthermore, regarding the "history" of silver: 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver exist solely on paper, the result of silver "leases." I lease you my silver for 2% interest. You then lease it to someone else for 2.2% interest, and he leases it to someone else for 2.4% interest, and that person uses it in an industrial process. Thus the silver, that is no longer existant, still shows up on the books--not once, but FOUR times. Of the 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver that exist on paper in the form of leases, perhaps 150 million ounces of silver actually exists--the rest is just paper.
So if you can tell me how silver, the only commodity to have a decreasing above-ground supply, and silver, the only commodity to be shorted more than it's annual production, and silver, the only commodity where ONE BILLION "ounces" exist only on paper--if you can show me how silver will not one day tear loose, force shorters to cover their shorts, bankrupt leasers, and break out--if you can present a cogent argument as to WHY silver must always be worth $4 an ounce, please, by all means, do.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Someone can always find an expert like "Dave Ramsey" to bash metals just like you can find some expert to bash "mutual funds." What's this worth to anyone? How about a few other sources to back up Mr. Ramsey...if you have any. Don't put all your eggs in one basket on the opinion of one "sage." How about the cult that was waiting for their spaceship to arrive and they all killed themselves? They only took the advice of one person too! The facts about silver are stated quite clearly above. Like gold, the silver market has been manipulated for over a decade. Even Alan Greenspan was pro-gold just a few years back....but he's totally sold his soul to the financial bubbles. The chains are busting loose. Get used to it.
Frankly, I don't really care much about the silver Napoleon bought around 1810, or what the price of tulips is today. I'm worried about the US and world economies, currency issues, $180 TRILLION in derivatives (sewage), financial bubbles (real estate, stocks), etc. That's where PM's come into the equation. 200 years of history doesn't have a whole lot to do with anything. It's the current 5-10 years that count NOW. Look at the cycles, it's pretty clear where we are.
Dollardude will eventually buy silver, but not until his stock portfolio is worth 10-30% of what it was. And by the time he buys silver, he'll be holding it while everyone else is dumping.
And to anyone with a spare bag of silver. Bring some buy at the next show I'm at and I'll be happy to drag some home with me. My back is still strong so I don't mind the effort.
And to anyone with a spare bag of silver. Bring some buy at the next show I'm at and I'll be happy to drag some home with me. My back is still strong so I don't mind the effort.
no overhead resistance for silver until it reaches $13. technical analysis and more in the Money Alerts section of my website. I called the bull market in silver months ago, along with gold in a new bull at $311. cheers, alan mendelson
<< Someone can always find an expert like "Dave Ramsey" to bash metals just like you can find some expert to bash "mutual funds." What's this worth to anyone? How about a few other sources to back up Mr. Ramsey...if you have any. Don't put all your eggs in one basket on the opinion of one "sage." How about the cult that was waiting for their spaceship to arrive and they all killed themselves? They only took the advice of one person too! The facts about silver are stated quite clearly above. Like gold, the silver market has been manipulated for over a decade. Even Alan Greenspan was pro-gold just a few years back....but he's totally sold his soul to the financial bubbles. The chains are busting loose. Get used to it. >>
John Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, is another person pushing good growth-stock mutual funds. He advocates long-term investing, and is against short-term "folly". Check out a recent speech of his: Re-Mutualizing the Mutual Fund Industry — The Alpha and the Omega.
As far as paid-for investment real estate is concerned, there are many experts I choose to believe, i.e., Wade Cook, etc.
I have read many personal finance books. The conclusion I drew was that to build wealth, you have to do long-term investing in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. The reason is because these are both ownership investments.
I have made most of my current fortune with investment real estate and good growth-stock mutual funds. I once tried precious metals, but broke even when all of the expenses of buying and selling were factored in. ALL other people who have tried precious metals who I have personally talked to have LOST money. Like I always say, if you want to be rich, you have to do rich people things. If you do poor people things, you get to become poor people. Talk to some self-made millionaires and ask them how they got there. I guarantee that very few of them will say, "yes, precious metals put me over the top".
I look at the financial markets of 1982-2002 as the abberation, not the norm. Starting with Volcker to ensure gold and silver stayed put for decades, to the agglomeration of major financial houses, the past 20 years has been a rigged market in stocks, prmarily to benefit the large financial firms. The appreciation as an index can be attributed to the US's policy of printing money and ballooning credit & debt to unheard of levels. This is not my idea of "creating" a true fortune for our country. The $44 TRILLION bill is having to be paid shortly down the road and we have no plan for it....other than defaulting or devaluing our dollar by 50%...or making it bigger since congress is afraid to tackle it for fear of being voted out of office. We have transformed our economy from a maker of "things" to a supplier of mortgage credit and stocks/bonds. Quite a change if you ask me.
If the past 20 years shows the way to "wealth" creation (esp. the last 10 years), I can do without it. A large number of Americans who have been left out will also argue with you too. The founders wanted us to rely on metals to prevent the above from happening as it has ruined every nation in the past several thousand years that employed such fiat currency. I would hold your judgement of the current stock and real estate fortunes we have "created" out of thin air until we complete the current bear cycle over the next several (2-15) years. The game has not yet been completed...just as Mr. Roach over a Morgan-Stanley.
I look at the financial markets of 1982-2002 as the abberation, not the norm. Starting with Volcker to ensure gold and silver stayed put for decades, to the agglomeration of major financial houses, the past 20 years has been a rigged market in stocks, prmarily to benefit the large financial firms. The appreciation as an index can be attributed to the US's policy of printing money and ballooning credit & debt to unheard of levels. This is not my idea of "creating" a true fortune for our country. The $44 TRILLION bill is having to be paid shortly down the road and we have no plan for it....other than defaulting or devaluing our dollar by 50%...or making it bigger since congress is afraid to tackle it for fear of being voted out of office. We have transformed our economy from a maker of "things" to a supplier of mortgage credit and stocks/bonds. Quite a change if you ask me.
If the past 20 years shows the way to "wealth" creation (esp. the last 10 years), I can do without it. A large number of Americans who have been left out will also argue with you too. The founders wanted us to rely on metals to prevent the above from happening as it has ruined every nation in the past several thousand years that employed such fiat currency. I would hold your judgement of the current stock and real estate fortunes we have "created" out of thin air until we complete the current bear cycle over the next several (2-15) years. The game has not yet been completed...just as Mr. Roach over a Morgan-Stanley.
roadrunner >>
Hit the nail on the head!
Travis
-------- Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue tied and twisted Just an earthbound misfit, I
It appears a minor correction is occurring as gold is down $10 and silver has dropped below $8 again. I would only offer one additional comment. IMHO the discussion of metal prices has no bearing anymore other that risk/return with regard to the value of the dollar. We can never go back to currency being backed by metal again. The dollar is based upon the economy. While interesting as a commodity, the day of dollars linking to gold or silver are gone forever. PS. I also believe silver will move up in value long term, so I am not bashing metals. However, I do not have the same belief for gold.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Dollardude: since you won't respond to my comments on silver, presumably you aren't able to. To date I've not found one person, yourself included, who can tell me why a commodity whose amount is shrinking by 2% per year can go anywhere but up. Yes, history teaches us silver is a bad investment. Why? Because over the last 20 years, silver shorters have been able to SELL ON THE OPEN MARKET 550,000,000 ounces of silver that DO NOT EXIST. One of these days they will have to cover their shorts and buy back one years' total world-wide production of silver--then you better hold on to your pants.
And if you don't think there is a struggle, look at the $.70 swing so far today. Mighty forces are at work. Looks to me like one of the minor shorters got scared and covered his short, and the "Big 8" came in and sold more non-existant silver, but longs drove the price up once again.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i><< dollardude seems to have lost his way and thinks he's on a yahoo message board >>
Let me quote Dave Ramsey's new book, The Total Money Makeover, concerning gold (silver is just as bad):
"The truth is that gold is a lousy investment with a long track record of mediocrity. The average rates of return tracked as far back as Napoleon are around 2 percent gain per year. In recent history, gold has a fifty-year track record of around 4.4 percent, about the same as inflation and just above savings accounts. During that same time frame, you would have made around 12 percent in a good growth-stock mutual fund. During those fifty years though, there has been incredible volatility and tons of risk. It is important to remember that gold is not used when economies fail. History shows that when an economy completely collapses, the first thing that appears is a black-market barter system, in which people trade items for other items or services. In a primitive culture, items of utility often become the medium of exchange, and the same is temporarily true in a failed economy."
No, I don't think we are in some unique place in history where precious metals suddenly become a good investment. IMO, you should sell any precious metals you may be stuck with, take your money, and RUN FAST! >>
You seem to be missing one key point. Gold is one of the only assets that can NEVER go broke ! Stocks, bonds, currencies ("paper") can all go bust.
That quote above is actually very telling (and extremely contradictory). It claims that gold is very risky, but at the same time it points out how stable it has been for hundreds of years ! Few if any "paper" assets have survived from the Napolean era to today.
If you want to comapre track records of gold vs. mutual funds, take a close look at the last 5 years.
the issue is not the long term for silver and gold. yes, over the long term they are "dead" investments. but what the bulls look at now is that the metals have broken out and its time for them to have their run. no one says they will run up for ever... but they are running. cheers, alan mendelson
Not true Alan. Many people believe that once silver finally shakes loose the shorters and leasers, it WILL settle at a much higher price then trend upwards (since there is a huge silver deficit per year).
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Cladiator
Posts: 18,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
FOOLS!
A well-balanced family of no load mutual funds is all one needs. Course it would be nicer if there was any prospect for growth in em. Oh well, they make good writeoffs.
Time to buy tech stocks. Especially with the new decision that stock options are INDEED expenses and had they been treated that way would have cut earnings an average 61% last year.
rah rah rah for the good old elites.....er....meant Neocons.
Date
Time
(EST)
Bid
Ask
Change
Low
High
GOLD
04/01/2004
11:38
427.80
428.30
-0.10
-0.02%
424.40
433.60
SILVER
04/01/2004
11:37
8.12
8.14
+0.21
+2.65%
7.93
8.20
PLATINUM
04/01/2004
11:35
905.00
915.00
+7.00
+0.78%
889.00
918.00
PALLADIUM
04/01/2004
11:22
297.00
307.00
+9.00
+3.13%
283.00
308.00
09/07/2006
If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Hey Hey now..... last week this neocon picked off 4% in semiconductors, and rotated to drillers to pick off another percent. The only "Well Darn" is that gold stocks are back to where I sold them, so a decision has to be made.........
WHY, IT'S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN!
<< <i>As those precious metals go up and up the dollar will go down down down, the interest rates will have to come up and up and here comes inflation again. Then, what are you going to do with all your over-priced real estate?
WHY, IT'S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN! >>
Si! Eeet seems dat way!
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Yep I thought you were going to give it away at the time....I hope the dollar stays low for a while and let silver run....gold can hold steady, right where it is...let silver run.
7,145,259,603,957.94
The estimated population of the United States is 293,688,480
so each citizen's share of this debt is $24,329.68.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.96 billion per day since September 30, 2003!
Think this is going to be ther overiding factor for quite some time.....
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>National debt right now is: >>
People always fret about the national debt. I hope everybody realizes that the "national debt" is Treasury bonds, treasury notes, and the like. Every time you buy a savings bond, you're contributing to the national debt. If you have a money market fund, chances are it has some investment in Treasuries, and you're contributing to the national debt.
If there was no national debt, there would be no treasury bonds, notes, etc...and we would lose one of the safest (albeit very low yielding) investment vehicles out there...
<< <i>If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. >>
You would, eh? Perhaps you can tell me why silver is going to go down, in light of the following:
1) The world's above-ground supply of silver is decreasing by 2% per year (about 50-100 million ounces), since MORE silver is used in industry (and otherwise consumed) than is produced from mines.
2) The "historical" comment--yes, in a "history" dominated by SHORTS the price of silver has been notoriously low. When the silver shorters are permited to sell (that is, to short) 500,000,000 ounces of silver that they don't own. In fact, the short position is GREATER than an entire YEAR's worth of silver production.
3) Furthermore, regarding the "history" of silver: 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver exist solely on paper, the result of silver "leases." I lease you my silver for 2% interest. You then lease it to someone else for 2.2% interest, and he leases it to someone else for 2.4% interest, and that person uses it in an industrial process. Thus the silver, that is no longer existant, still shows up on the books--not once, but FOUR times. Of the 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver that exist on paper in the form of leases, perhaps 150 million ounces of silver actually exists--the rest is just paper.
So if you can tell me how silver, the only commodity to have a decreasing above-ground supply, and silver, the only commodity to be shorted more than it's annual production, and silver, the only commodity where ONE BILLION "ounces" exist only on paper--if you can show me how silver will not one day tear loose, force shorters to cover their shorts, bankrupt leasers, and break out--if you can present a cogent argument as to WHY silver must always be worth $4 an ounce, please, by all means, do.
<< <i>
<< <i>National debt right now is: >>
People always fret about the national debt. I hope everybody realizes that the "national debt" is Treasury bonds, treasury notes, and the like. Every time you buy a savings bond, you're contributing to the national debt. If you have a money market fund, chances are it has some investment in Treasuries, and you're contributing to the national debt.
If there was no national debt, there would be no treasury bonds, notes, etc...and we would lose one of the safest (albeit very low yielding) investment vehicles out there... >>
Then don't fret about it and based on that conclusion, hope that it continues to skyrocket
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Is Silver Scandal On the Horizon?
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
The three worst things I can possibly think of to invest in right now are:
1. US Dollar-denominated bonds.
2. Residential real estate.
3. Stock mutual funds.
<< <i>Dollardude keeps bashing precious metals and they keep going up. Please continue.
The three worst things I can possibly think of to invest in right now are:
1. US Dollar-denominated bonds.
2. Residential real estate.
3. Stock mutual funds. >>
Agreed.
dollardude seems to have lost his way and thinks he's on a yahoo message board
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I've found alot of interesting reading on the Financial Sense Precious Metals Web Site
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Me too! The day silver busted $5 I borrowed money to acquire 3 rolls of eagles. Boy Mrs Cooker was pissed! (oops I meant "mad"....)
The down side of this is that the chance of getting neat halves at the bank go down each time silver goes up.
Our bank put up a sign about 3 weeks ago limiting the rolls issued to people.
<< <i>try to sell you junk silver at a coin show, you will still be lucky if you get 5 times >>
eBay.
<< <i>The down side of this is that the chance of getting neat halves at the bank go down each time silver goes up.
Our bank put up a sign about 3 weeks ago limiting the rolls issued to people. >>
That's kinda funny.
Yes, I will keep bashing precious metals, coins (as an investment -- not as a hobby), stamps, antiques, artwork, etc. as investments.
Let me quote Dave Ramsey's new book, The Total Money Makeover, concerning gold (silver is just as bad):
"The truth is that gold is a lousy investment with a long track record of mediocrity. The average rates of return tracked as far back as Napoleon are around 2 percent gain per year. In recent history, gold has a fifty-year track record of around 4.4 percent, about the same as inflation and just above savings accounts. During that same time frame, you would have made around 12 percent in a good growth-stock mutual fund. During those fifty years though, there has been incredible volatility and tons of risk. It is important to remember that gold is not used when economies fail. History shows that when an economy completely collapses, the first thing that appears is a black-market barter system, in which people trade items for other items or services. In a primitive culture, items of utility often become the medium of exchange, and the same is temporarily true in a failed economy."
No, I don't think we are in some unique place in history where precious metals suddenly become a good investment. IMO, you should sell any precious metals you may be stuck with, take your money, and RUN FAST!
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
<< <i>concerning gold (silver is just as bad) >>
Would you mind explaining WHY silver is "just as bad" as gold. No offense, but I'd like to see your assertion backed up by some facts. Specifically, please counter my previous post:
<< If anyone has any of this precious metals crap, I'd dump all you have at this price by the end of the day. Take the money from this historically low-yield/high-risk investment and RUN. Put your money in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. >>
You would, eh? Perhaps you can tell me why silver is going to go down, in light of the following:
1) The world's above-ground supply of silver is decreasing by 2% per year (about 50-100 million ounces), since MORE silver is used in industry (and otherwise consumed) than is produced from mines.
2) The "historical" comment--yes, in a "history" dominated by SHORTS the price of silver has been notoriously low. When the silver shorters are permited to sell (that is, to short) 500,000,000 ounces of silver that they don't own. In fact, the short position is GREATER than an entire YEAR's worth of silver production.
3) Furthermore, regarding the "history" of silver: 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver exist solely on paper, the result of silver "leases." I lease you my silver for 2% interest. You then lease it to someone else for 2.2% interest, and he leases it to someone else for 2.4% interest, and that person uses it in an industrial process. Thus the silver, that is no longer existant, still shows up on the books--not once, but FOUR times. Of the 1,000,000,000 ounces of silver that exist on paper in the form of leases, perhaps 150 million ounces of silver actually exists--the rest is just paper.
So if you can tell me how silver, the only commodity to have a decreasing above-ground supply, and silver, the only commodity to be shorted more than it's annual production, and silver, the only commodity where ONE BILLION "ounces" exist only on paper--if you can show me how silver will not one day tear loose, force shorters to cover their shorts, bankrupt leasers, and break out--if you can present a cogent argument as to WHY silver must always be worth $4 an ounce, please, by all means, do.
What's this worth to anyone? How about a few other sources to back up Mr. Ramsey...if you have any. Don't put all your eggs in one basket on the opinion of one "sage." How about the cult that was waiting for their spaceship to arrive and they all killed themselves? They only took the advice of one person too! The facts about silver are stated quite clearly above. Like gold, the silver market has been manipulated for over a decade. Even Alan Greenspan was pro-gold just a few years back....but he's totally sold his soul to the financial bubbles. The chains are busting loose. Get used to it.
Frankly, I don't really care much about the silver Napoleon bought
around 1810, or what the price of tulips is today. I'm worried about the US and world economies, currency issues, $180 TRILLION in derivatives (sewage), financial bubbles (real estate, stocks), etc. That's where PM's come into the equation. 200 years of history doesn't have a whole lot to do with anything. It's the current 5-10 years that count NOW. Look at the cycles, it's pretty clear where we are.
Dollardude will eventually buy silver, but not until his stock portfolio is worth 10-30% of what it was. And by the time he buys silver, he'll be holding it while everyone else is dumping.
And to anyone with a spare bag of silver. Bring some buy at the next show I'm at and I'll be happy to drag some home with me.
My back is still strong so I don't mind the effort.
roadrunner
My back is still strong so I don't mind the effort.
roadrunner >>
I'll help!
Rgrds
TP
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
What's this worth to anyone? How about a few other sources to back up Mr. Ramsey...if you have any. Don't put all your eggs in one basket on the opinion of one "sage." How about the cult that was waiting for their spaceship to arrive and they all killed themselves? They only took the advice of one person too! The facts about silver are stated quite clearly above. Like gold, the silver market has been manipulated for over a decade. Even Alan Greenspan was pro-gold just a few years back....but he's totally sold his soul to the financial bubbles. The chains are busting loose. Get used to it. >>
John Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, is another person pushing good growth-stock mutual funds. He advocates long-term investing, and is against short-term "folly". Check out a recent speech of his: Re-Mutualizing the Mutual Fund Industry — The Alpha and the Omega.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Stocks,bonds,real estate,precious metals,poker,horse racing,all forms of gambling!
You may win or lose,nothing is guaranteed!
As far as paid-for investment real estate is concerned, there are many experts I choose to believe, i.e., Wade Cook, etc.
I have read many personal finance books. The conclusion I drew was that to build wealth, you have to do long-term investing in good growth-stock mutual funds and paid-for real estate. The reason is because these are both ownership investments.
I have made most of my current fortune with investment real estate and good growth-stock mutual funds. I once tried precious metals, but broke even when all of the expenses of buying and selling were factored in. ALL other people who have tried precious metals who I have personally talked to have LOST money. Like I always say, if you want to be rich, you have to do rich people things. If you do poor people things, you get to become poor people. Talk to some self-made millionaires and ask them how they got there. I guarantee that very few of them will say, "yes, precious metals put me over the top".
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Camelot
Mr. "Cease and Desist selling your unlicensed securities in our state" Wade Cook?
Oh my, that's an all time low.............. Bogle would croak on the spot if he knew he was promoted alongside Wade Crook!
I look at the financial markets of 1982-2002 as the abberation, not the norm. Starting with Volcker to ensure gold and silver stayed put for decades, to the agglomeration of major financial houses, the past 20 years has been a rigged market in stocks, prmarily to benefit the large financial firms. The appreciation as an index can be attributed to the US's policy of printing money and ballooning credit & debt to unheard of levels. This is not my idea of "creating" a true fortune for our country. The $44 TRILLION bill is having to be paid shortly down the road and we have no plan for it....other than defaulting or devaluing our dollar by 50%...or making it bigger since congress is afraid to tackle it for fear of being voted out of office. We have transformed our economy from a maker of "things" to a supplier of mortgage credit and stocks/bonds. Quite a change if you ask me.
If the past 20 years shows the way to "wealth" creation (esp. the last 10 years), I can do without it. A large number of Americans who have been left out will also argue with you too. The founders wanted us to rely on metals to prevent the above from happening as it has ruined every nation in the past several thousand years that employed such fiat currency. I would hold your judgement of the current stock and real estate fortunes we have "created" out of thin air until we complete the current bear cycle over the next several (2-15) years. The game has not yet been completed...just as Mr. Roach over a Morgan-Stanley.
roadrunner
I am posting this assuming this hasn't been put here already
IS SILVER BEING MANIPULATED?
<< <i>Dollardude,
I look at the financial markets of 1982-2002 as the abberation, not the norm. Starting with Volcker to ensure gold and silver stayed put for decades, to the agglomeration of major financial houses, the past 20 years has been a rigged market in stocks, prmarily to benefit the large financial firms. The appreciation as an index can be attributed to the US's policy of printing money and ballooning credit & debt to unheard of levels. This is not my idea of "creating" a true fortune for our country. The $44 TRILLION bill is having to be paid shortly down the road and we have no plan for it....other than defaulting or devaluing our dollar by 50%...or making it bigger since congress is afraid to tackle it for fear of being voted out of office. We have transformed our economy from a maker of "things" to a supplier of mortgage credit and stocks/bonds. Quite a change if you ask me.
If the past 20 years shows the way to "wealth" creation (esp. the last 10 years), I can do without it. A large number of Americans who have been left out will also argue with you too. The founders wanted us to rely on metals to prevent the above from happening as it has ruined every nation in the past several thousand years that employed such fiat currency. I would hold your judgement of the current stock and real estate fortunes we have "created" out of thin air until we complete the current bear cycle over the next several (2-15) years. The game has not yet been completed...just as Mr. Roach over a Morgan-Stanley.
roadrunner >>
Hit the nail on the head!
--------
Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes
from the circling skies
Tongue tied and twisted
Just an earthbound misfit,
I
">my registry set
And if you don't think there is a struggle, look at the $.70 swing so far today. Mighty forces are at work. Looks to me like one of the minor shorters got scared and covered his short, and the "Big 8" came in and sold more non-existant silver, but longs drove the price up once again.
<< <i><< dollardude seems to have lost his way and thinks he's on a yahoo message board >>
Let me quote Dave Ramsey's new book, The Total Money Makeover, concerning gold (silver is just as bad):
"The truth is that gold is a lousy investment with a long track record of mediocrity. The average rates of return tracked as far back as Napoleon are around 2 percent gain per year. In recent history, gold has a fifty-year track record of around 4.4 percent, about the same as inflation and just above savings accounts. During that same time frame, you would have made around 12 percent in a good growth-stock mutual fund. During those fifty years though, there has been incredible volatility and tons of risk. It is important to remember that gold is not used when economies fail. History shows that when an economy completely collapses, the first thing that appears is a black-market barter system, in which people trade items for other items or services. In a primitive culture, items of utility often become the medium of exchange, and the same is temporarily true in a failed economy."
No, I don't think we are in some unique place in history where precious metals suddenly become a good investment. IMO, you should sell any precious metals you may be stuck with, take your money, and RUN FAST! >>
You seem to be missing one key point. Gold is one of the only assets that can NEVER go broke ! Stocks, bonds, currencies ("paper") can all go bust.
That quote above is actually very telling (and extremely contradictory). It claims that gold is very risky, but at the same time it points out how stable it has been for hundreds of years ! Few if any "paper" assets have survived from the Napolean era to today.
If you want to comapre track records of gold vs. mutual funds, take a close look at the last 5 years.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
I would suggest that those who buy because something has "broke out" be able to recognize a "break down" as well..........BEFORE investing.......