PSA SMR=JOKE

hench1

I'm pretty ticked off after seeing the new updated SMR for T205s. I spent quite a bit of time researching T205 selling prices from ebay, Mastro, Superior, Lipset, and others, using sales from the last 6 months. Knowledgeable collectors, none of whom apparently work at PSA, understand that in the world of T205s, there are many "commons" who are MUCH more difficult than others. (Just check the Pop Report, which BTW is alphabetized by FIRST names-never seen that before among educated people). They also know which players are minor leaguers, which players are short prints, etc. Apparently the nuances of the set eludes PSA.

Anyway, in checking out the new SMR today, NONE of the obvious errors were corrected:

Adkins and Batch are minor leaguers, listed as commons

Moran (stray line), Wagner, Fisher, Kirb White, Dougherty (red sock), Gray (with stats), Gray (no stats), A. Latham, Sweeney, Scanlan and Dahlen, all short prints or variations, are priced with very small premiums over commons. And these are many of the TOUGHEST CARDS IN THE SET. Just check PSA's own Pop Report to verify.

There was absolutely NO adjustment whatsoever for very tough "commons" such as A. Leifield, LaPorte, Mullin, Jacklitsch, Harry Lord, Birmingham and Hummel.

Joss, Vaughn, Suggs and both Wallace (no cap) cards are ridiculously underpriced.

If PSA is going to live up to their own name of PROFESSIONAL Sports Authenticators, it would be nice to see them produce a professional product. Their grading on T205s is absurd and the price guide is amateurish at best. I don't know how it fares on other issues, but I KNOW T205s and they are not even close. This has gotten very tiresome.

I guess I'm just so ticked off at myself, that I wasted so many hours trying to help PSA with DOCUMENTED prices, only to have it all ignored. I guess I was just kidding myself thinking they would listen.

Vargha

Wow . . . you mean that you did the legwork and still the corrections weren't made? Ouch!

hench1

I documented my values with sale prices, dates, and sources. Nothing was used. I had been saving auction prices for months in an effort to help PSA use good numbers for their SMR instead of off-the-wall ones. Very irritating to see their total lack of interest in accuracy.

theBobs

Send your work to Basilone. He seems to know the trick to getting updates into the SMR. Perhaps he could forward your research on to his contact.

This might be interesting reading. Sorry your efforts weren't acted upon.

jaybyrd

Received the new SMR yesterday with Carmelo Anthony on the cover. Three articles about signing habits of whoever. Who made the decision to keep putting these articles in the magazine? Maybe because I don't collect autographs, but who cares!!

Nice article about Duke Snider and his cards though. Seems to be a lot of flash and not much substance to the magazine. Big full color ads and articles, but not much interesting to read. Unless you like to scour the pricing and see if any cards have went up or down in value.

hench1

And that brings up another bone to pick. In the article on T205s, written by Doug Allen, all of the pictures of T205s they used were mine, without so much as the courtesy of a credit.

Griffins

Jerry-
I share your frustration, but on the upside it is only a guide, and anyone with any intelligence uses it as a starting point for their research, not the sole source. Besides that, Mastro's realized prices are usually considerably higher than SMR, and surely will be for your set.
Anthony

yawie99

I used to send Joe O updated pricing information on the modern hockey market back when I used to focus on it. They were good about using the information, but the turnaround time on publishing it was only marginally better than the turnaround times on grading back in the day. It's quite possible they will still use your info; you may just have to give it another issue or two.

Basilone

Hench-

It is frustrating not to see changes in the SMR especially since you are planning on selling your set.

BTW....how did they get the top notch pictures of your cards? Does PSA scan high grade examples of cards as they come through for their own library? I'm not sure how that works.

Your right...a nice note stating that all cards pictured came from your collection would of been nice.


TheBobs- Thanks for for the link to the June 2003 thread...looks like I do own a crystal ball.

murcerfan

holy wam bam spam slam

onegaucho

Look at it this way, if people truly use it as their guide when bidding on eBay (or in other auctions), you'll have an inside track as to what they're really worth. I mean, if they're undervalued in the SMR, then you should have a better chance at grabbing them - unless of course, you're trying to sell them!

hench1

Basilone, I think they got the scans from Mastro, where I've consigned the set for their April auction. I know the SMR is only a guide, but many rely upon it for at least a benchmark (if for nothing else than to apply the proper multiples to reflect actual values). The point is, I went to a lot of trouble, not to inflate the values for my own benefit (I'm not being defensive, I don't think anyone has implied that), but rather to accurately reflect actual values from the marketplace. A novel idea, apparently.

Also, with the set becoming much more broadly popular in only the last few years, there are probably many who are not well acquainted with the numerous variations and short prints and would be unable to appreciate the actual market valuations, without the support of the SMR. So, with my set coming up for auction in a few weeks, coupled with the importance to my family of it realizing full market value, it is a major disappointment to me that they either ignored my research or else are being tardy in utilizing it. I tried to be very fair and to well document my estimated values.

As with the grading, PSA response time seems more and more to be "when we get around to it".

mrc32

hench1-
I noticed that they did make some updates. Are your complaints about what they printed in the magazine or what they posted on the web site? Or both?

In the magazine, they did add a new line for "scare unlisted singles." I guess that is their way of fixing the problem.

Any chance you would be willing to share the data you have gathered on pricing? I'd really be interested in seeing your research.

Thanks
Michael
mrc32@bellsouth.net

1954

Hench1- Have you completed the T205 set? The reason I ask is because I am making the 1934 batter up set. I have been recording sales of these cards for the past two years. I will not send out any of my information nor share it with anyone until I have completed my set at the level that I want it to be. I think by sharing my information with others before that is done would be shooting myself in the foot.
Going back to your issue with the SMR and I am assuming Joe? I have yet to send him info/pricing on sets without a "thank you" or confirmation that it was received. If you did not receive one of these emails, then they did not get it or have not gotten to it yet.
Resend the email and send it directly to Joe.


Shane
P.S. That is pretty lame that they did not give you credit for the pics in the SMR of your cards. A classless act PSA!

Basilone

Hench-

A couple of things.

On a positive note...it is nice to have an article devoted to the set right before the Mastro Auction. Since the article was by Doug Allen...so that would explain the Mastro tie-in.....plus the timing couldn't be better in regards to their upcoming auction.....looks like PSA ( and Joe Orlando) did Mastro a major solid by having the article featured in the SMR when it did.

Also...in regards to the paper vs. online SMR. The online SMR will be updated once the paper SMR hits the newsstands...as per an agreement with the publisher. This was the case a couple of months ago.

With any set, we need to take it upon ourselves to make sure that the online and paper versions of the SMR mirror each other, so that everyone is on the same page when buying & selling cards.

In the past I've found in one of the sets that I follow.....team cards had a higher price the paper SMR but the online SMR still considered priced them as regular commons.

You do make some very good points in regards to the SMR and the T205 set....as the average collector might not be as up to snuff on the market value of these cards as he would be with a mid 60's Topps set.

John B.

koby

I have emailed and sent prices realized in auctions and private sales to PSA. If there is a pattern of verifiable sales, PSA will look at this and make changes. I have been told that a single sale, even is verifiable, doe snot always warrant a change. This may be the case with some rare cards and seldomly sold cards. PSA has always been responsive to the pricing suggestions, but even when they changed the prices in the SMR, it always took about two issues before the changes actually appeared in print.

qualitycards

HENCH - Don't worry. Your cards will sell for what they're really worth. The more a collector knows the intricacies of each set the less valuable a general price guide like the SMR, SCD, or Beckett becomes. The final price will have nothing to do with any price guide. You don't need the SMR to pump up the prices on T205 cards in order for your auctions to do well. A card worth $500 in the current market will sell for $500 whether or not the $500 price happens to be 2x, 3x, 4x, or 5x the price suggested in SMR...jay

Fuzz

Was talking with them a couple of months ago regarding a card I have that is mis-graded. Way mis-graded (PSA 9 that is 78/22 by my measurements). I was inquiring about the "guarantee" and what it meant. It came up in the conversation that the pricing portion of the magazine is done several months in advance of the cover date. So depending on your date of submission, I would give it several months to work it's way into the system. I have also noticed that the registery Leader lists in the magazine also seem to be way off in time from when the actual lead changes occur.
Fuzz

qualitycards

FUZZ & 1954 are correct!
When I broke my complete 1960 Topps football set, I had about 70 PSA-8's running on eBay, and out of the 50+ commons, all but 3 exceeded the smr price, and the 3 that didn't, missed it by a few cents. Although I had no more PSA-8's in inventory or in my collection, I figured the smr needed to know this. I Emailed Joe w/ a copy & paste of all the auctions for that evening. That same day, I rec'd an Email from Joe that they were rec'd and he stated the latest issue has gone to press, so look for changes in the following one. Sure enough when the May issue was rec'd a few days ago, ALL the commons went up...jay

SKINSFAN

FUZZ so what did they say about the nine in question?

BBCI

I guess I am with Jay on this one....I worked with Joe over the course of a couple of months - providing him auction details - and sure enough the current issue of SMR has made adjustments to 1962 Topps Baseball - particularly on the commons. I still have some work to do on the stars, but the process seems to work.

Don

CW

<< <i>hench1-
I noticed that they did make some updates. Are your complaints about what they
printed in the magazine or what they posted on the web site? Or both?

In the magazine, they did add a new line for "scare unlisted singles." I guess that is
their way of fixing the problem. >>



Michael (mrc32) has a great point. Hench1, you might be getting
upset for no reason. Like Michael said, they added the new line,
plus at the bottom of the set is a new line that says, "the Scarce
Unlisted Singles refers to low pop commons and rarities - please
visit web pricing for extended look. These cards (SUS) have been
selling in the $2,000-$3,000 range depending on the population."
Now according to Basilone, if the paper SMR hasn't hit the newsstands
then the online SMR hasn't been updated yet. In other words, it's
quite possible that PSA put your information to very good use.

hench1

Well, I certainly hope I jumped the gun and it will be updated in the next few days. I got my SMR magazine last week and have been looking for the online update, which appeared to me to have occurred yesterday. I hope I'm wrong, and will be happy to apologize if that's the case.

miami3

I live in warm and sunny Connecticut and have never had a problem receiving my copies of SMR on time.

Anyone know where they print and ship the magazine from as maybe this has something to do with it?????

Basilone

According to what I've been told by Customer Service...the magazines are shipped from Wisconsin.

1967topps

Odd that so many sports cards magazines all come from Wisconsin?
Maybe it is cosmically related to the fact that most credit card offers I get
all come from Delaware?