Question for Spanish coin experts

KEEWEE

I have a Spanish coin featuring Queen Isabell II, dated 1868. On the reverse, the denomination says "10 Es." Looking on Ebay, I found only two examples of this coin, and in both it was described as a 10 Escudo coin composed of gold. Checking in my 2003 Blackbook, it also states that the 1868 10 Escudo is composed of gold. What is bothering me is that the coin I have does not "look" gold. When I first purchased it, it appeared bronze or copper to me. Does anyone have any additional information to offer on this particular coin? I have very little experience with gold coins, so I don't know if they can appear to be bronze-like over time. Or perhaps it is some kind of counterfeit, which if so, it is one heck of a counterfeit.

Thanks,
KEEWEE

PS: Sorry I haven't been on lately. Will try to be more sociable.

lordmarcovan

Those counterfeits are fairly common. I sold one on eBay a while ago- what made it interesting is that a friend of mine actually found it with his detector, on a 19th century homesite near here! (That same site was also occupied much earlier- I found a 1738 halfpenny there!)

Those counterfeit 10-escudo pieces may not have been intended to circulate or fool anyone- it's possible they were just intended as gaming counters, much as the fake 1790's British guineas made of brass. The one I sold, despite having been buried for probably 100 years, still had some traces of gilt on it, so they were probably gilt brass, though I have seen just plain brass ones, too. Many were holed, as was the one I sold.

So the bad news is, as you expected, that you do not have a gold coin. The good news is that it is probably a contemporary counterfeit rather than a modern copy, and it may be worth a few bucks as a curiosity. I can't remember what mine sold for, but it was a dug example and not that great. I still think it might have fetched nearly ten bucks.

KEEWEE

Thanks for the info, Lordmarcovan. Do you, or anyone, know if there is a way to tell if a coin is gold, that is, without biting into it or cleaning it? Like I said, I haven't had much dealing with gold, and this one looks bronze to me, but around the edges it does appear gold-like. Can gold coins collect a "patina?" I don't want to throw it on Ebay unless I know for sure what it is made of.

Many thanks,
KEEWEE

coachleonard

Lordmarcovan, along the same lines, a fellow I know found a Spanish cob coin along a river bed. It's
round, but irregular round, definitely looks hammered. It's about the size of a quarter. But this piece is
definitely brownish, a little grey-tinged along the edges. Design-wise it seems to be a Peru or Bolivian
cob (thick Spanish cross, pillars and grid on reverse) but I was wondering if actual silver spanish cobs
would turn brownish in the ground over the years-- is that something you've seen? Or do you think this
would also be a contemporary bronze counterfeit?

GDJMSP

Spanish colonials can take on a brown color or tone under certain conditions - it is not unusual. But it could also be a counterfeit. Can you get a pic of the coin ?

KEEWEE

OK, since I can't post a photo here, I will give you a link to go to my yahoo photo album and see the coin. Not the best picture, but I think it should give you an idea.

Pic of coin

If the link doesn't work, just go to photos.yahoo.com/keewees_coins.

Tell me what ya think!

Thanks,
KEEWEE

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I was wondering if actual silver spanish cobs would turn brownish in the ground over the years-- is that something you've seen? >>



Coach, I've never dug any silver cobs- all my Spanish silver was milled. The one "cob" style coin I've dug was actually copper. However, my answer to your question would be "possible, but not usually".

Keewee- yup. That's a contemporary counterfeit, just like my friend found. Holed, just like his. I'm beginning to think they might have been for jewelry rather than gaming counters, since all I have seen were holed. Yours looks more bronz-ey than brassy, but it could be brass. It may have been gilt at one time, like my friend's piece was, or maybe not. (Or maybe when it was new, it was shiny, like gold).

KEEWEE

Thanks. Yeah, it probably is counterfeit, but man, whoever did it did a great job. Gotta wonder if some Spanish mint employee snagged a used die to cast his own at home. Maybe this was painted gold at one time and passed off as gold. Interesting point about the hole in it. So do you think I should go ahead and sell it? I could live with $10 for it, since I think it was from a three coins for a dollar bin. Naturally with the disclaimer that it may be counterfeit.

And this is why we love coins so much...the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, the human drama of numismatic competition!

KEEWEE

lordmarcovan

Can't swear it would go for ten bucks, that's just the neighborhood I seem to recall selling my friend's piece for. I put it on eBay with a penny start. You never know.

I would keep it and put it on my keychain. (Then it would get nice and shiny and gold-lookin', maybe. Or it could even be shined up a little beforehand.)

GDJMSP

<< <i>

Pic of coin

If the link doesn't work, just go to photos.yahoo.com/keewees_coins.

Tell me what ya think!

Thanks,
KEEWEE >>




Gotta admit - that's not the "brown" I had in mind. I would agree with lordM.

cladking

<< <i>Those counterfeit 10-escudo pieces may not have been intended to circulate or fool anyone- it's possible they were just intended as gaming counters, much as the fake 1790's British guineas made of brass. The one I sold, despite having been buried for probably 100 years, still had some traces of gilt on it, so they were probably gilt brass, though I have seen just plain brass ones, too. Many were holed, as was the one I sold. >>



This is likely accurate since they are so common. In fact I've seen examples from a couple different dies
which isn't uncommon for game counters.

The easiest way to determine the composition of a coin is to compare it's weight in water to it's weight
in air. Just divide the difference into its weigh to get the density.