PCI coin,did I do good ? New Info !!!!!

merz2

I bought Ebay 3904020449.
Help with link.All opinions appreciated.

XpipedreamR

Link




Doesn't look MS66 to me. Who knows.



Looks a little strange to me, and I think the price is a little on the high side. The seller has a 15 day return, so you've got plenty of time to decide

kamehameha00

Just a moment too late!

K6AZ

Russ

For $26 you can't get screwed too bad.

Russ, NCNE

ksteelheader

Here is the best I could do in photoshop for you. Hope it helps....Ken
.
.

merz2

look beyond the color at the strike.

rainbowroosie

Worth $26.....

coppercoins

<< <i>look beyond the color at the strike. >>



Merz is hinting that it's a satin proof, and I think he's right. Tough to tell from the images, but it looks like the details are in the right place for the proof. If it is, you got a helluva deal!

merz2

Chuck
I don't think anybody noticed the squared rims but you.

pontiacinf

very well could be a satin proof, as PCI doesnt know its arse from its elbow.

ksteelheader

Merz is hinting that it's a satin proof, and I think he's right. Tough to tell from the images, but it looks like the details are in the right place for the proof. If it is, you got a helluva deal! .........Do I know this Merz guy? You betcha! That's why I attempted to make a better pic for you all. I know what he is looking for, as well as he knows what I'm usually looking for!!!!!.....Ken

Russ

Now, that would be kick ass!

Russ, NCNE

merz2

In my book by Wexler and Flynn it says there is a die scratch on the reverse Through the T in cent up to N in one.I think I see it.I could be wrong. It might be wishful thinking on my part.On the Satin Proof,the surface makes it hard to tell.

ksteelheader

die scratch on the reverse Through the T in cent up to N in one
.
.

Russ

Sure looks like a scratch to me!

Russ, NCNE

matteproof

Hi Merz. It's very hard to tell much from the image of your PCI ms66 graded 1909 vdb Lincoln Cent. The rim of a Matte Proof Lincoln should be "square" yet broad and the inner edges should be "crisp" (razor like so to speak). Often, it is very difficult to tell the difference between the Lincoln business strike and Matte Proof Lincoln Cent. This is especially true of well struck business strikes. Still, the rims are the first place that I look when buying raw Matte Proof Lincoln Cents. I also look for a certain "depth" - a "medal like" quality to discern raw Matte Proof Lincoln Cent specimens that I view.

The 1909 vdb Matte Proof Lincoln has been said to have a "crescent shape" die chip located near the right of "UNUM" on the reverse (a reported diagnostic). It's impossible to check this potential diagnostic from the image (magnification is needed). As you know, the 1909 vdb matte Proof Lincoln Cent is rare. PCI has called this one a business strike. I would be amazed if it turned out to be a Matte Proof (but stranger things have happened). If it turns out to be a proof, then you would have a windfall. Nice coin either way Merz. matteproof

merz2

matteproof
Either way for $26,I can't go wrong.Wouldn't you say.

matteproof

<< <i>matteproof
Either way for $26,I can't go wrong.Wouldn't you say. >>



Hi Merz. Lunch today cost me more than $26 and I've got nothing to show for it (but extra calories). At least you have a nice looking coin to look at for as long you decide to keep it. matteproof

merz2

matteproof
One last thing.The die chip you speak of is one of the diagnostics.However there wer (3) different Reverse Dies used.The die chip is only on Die #1.I beleive this is Die #2.
BTW,please turn on your allow for PM's.
Check my Lincoln Proof Registry Sets,including Matte Proofs.

XpipedreamR

Like I said at the beginning...good work!

Steve

Don,
Sorry I missed this thread earlier. The diagnostics shown in the Wexler/Flynn book for Obverse 1 and Reverse 1 are accurate and confirmed for true 1909VDB Matte Proofs including the one I own. There is much controversy about whether Flynn's diagnostics about a obverse 2 and a reverse 2 or reverse 3 are correct. Just as Flynn's mintage number of 1,194 instead of 420 is subject to dispute. I will PM you on this. Good luck. Steve

merz2

Steve
As always, I respect and appreciate your knowledge.I understand I'm taking a gamble.For $26,I'll give it a whirl.I plan to submit it to PCGS with my thoughts and let them decide.Give me a call.

DMWJR

Don, you've got guts, I'll say that. I can't tell from the image, but I hope you cherried a winner!

mdwoods

It's a nice looking coin. I think PCI got it right. The detail in the wheat ears looks a bit soft to be a matte proof. But I hope it is for your sake. It's still a nice coin for a good price.

MrSpud

Now you got me wondering if the one I picked up for $6 at a coin show for my US Mint Album is one of these matteproofs. I looked at the coin and I can see something going on to the right of the UNUM. Here are some pics with a closeup of the area to the right of the unum with a bracketed line added next to the coin showing where the crescent shaped thingy seems to start and end. Could this be one?
Thanks,
MrSpud

merz2

MrSpud
I can't tell from your pics.Just like I can't tell positively from the pics of mine.It would require closer examination.I hope you have it.Keep us informed.

merz2

I am ressurecting this debate to update it.I received the coin.After closer and careful inspection this is what I've determined.It is "NOT" the Matte Proof I was hopeing for.It is RB with luster.Now for the grade.The PCI slab says MS66 RB.IMHO the only part that is right is the RB designation.There are at least (5)minor dings on the Obverse that can be seen with a 10x loop.There is also rub on the cheek that is almost obscured by the toning.IMHO this is an AU55 at the very best.I took a chance and lost. Better luck with the other one.So who needs this one for a raw set ?

K6AZ

Sorry to hear that. Their grading is all over the map, sometimes you score, sometimes you don't. Wasn't too bad of a gamble, the downside was what, $25? The upside was who knows, I don't know the pricing of the proofs but I am sure they are up there.

matteproof

Hi Merz. You said; “...IMHO this is an AU55 at the very best.I took a chance and lost...”

Merz, you took a chance but you did not lose much. And, you gained alot! You have increased your wisdom and knowledge. Wisdom and knowledge are priceless. matteproof

merz2

K6AZ
You are diplomatic !Thanks for not rubbing it in.
matteproof
I do try to learn from all these adventures.I have won big and lost small.So yes I have learned some in 20+ years.

nankraut

Satin Proof? MS?

jdimmick

I agree with matteproof, no loss of 26.00 there. The education you gained from the investigation and reaserch you did thinking you may have scored a 09 proof is worth way more than 26.00. In fact, now being more educated on what to look for, may land you another opp down the road. This time you will be more informed.

I say great job.

jim d

K6AZ

<< <i>K6AZ
You are diplomatic !Thanks for not rubbing it in.
matteproof
I do try to learn from all these adventures.I have won big and lost small.So yes I have learned some in 20+ years. >>



I wouldn't rub it in, it was actually a good gamble on your part thinking it might be a proof. You had only $26 to lose, and whatever the proofs go for to gain, so I certainly wouldn't knock someone for that. I know people have scored proof Morgans in MS holders.

merz2

I also hope this post has in some way helped some of the newbies.I do want my experience to help others.I believe some lessons were learned by this thread.First and foremost we must look at the coin in hand,in order to evaluate it.Never just buy the grade on the slab.Second,it isn't necessarily bad to take a chance but it must be an informed chance.

JRocco

I, for one, took a lot away from this post. And I too agree that you played a good hand on this one merz2.

cohodk

Great thread Merz. And you can always flip it back on ebay and maybe you lose a buck or two. I wish every education in life was so cheap.

Steve

Don, sorry to hear about coin #1. Good luck on coin #2. Steve

ElectricEye

we who gamble salute you Merz2!

DCAMFranklin

It's $26! You waste that much on some lunches. Big deal. You made an educated speculation and the "bet" was a mere pitance of $26. The big pay-off was well worth the miniscule risk. Sorry it didn't work out this time.

mdwoods

I think it was worth the chance. I talked to a man at Jack Beymers table once who told of finding 2 09VDB matte proofs over the years by checking "unc" coins.

seanq

<< <i>

<< <i>K6AZ
You are diplomatic !Thanks for not rubbing it in.
matteproof
I do try to learn from all these adventures.I have won big and lost small.So yes I have learned some in 20+ years. >>



I wouldn't rub it in, it was actually a good gamble on your part thinking it might be a proof. You had only $26 to lose, and whatever the proofs go for to gain, so I certainly wouldn't knock someone for that. I know people have scored proof Morgans in MS holders. >>



Heck, I just made the same bet myself earlier in the week, and if you thought yours was a long shot, lay some odds on this coin being a proof. I based this entire purchase on (1) some frost/contrast in the picture, and (2) the knowledge that proofs of that area were struck more than once. Worst case, I have a $15 AU coin for $40; best case..... Besides, a little high risk / high reward behavior is good for the constitution.


Sean Reynolds

XpipedreamR

It was worth a shot!

joeyuk

Sorry it did not pan out for you. But it did get me to look at my 09 VDB in my Dansco. It turns out to be the ddo-2, And it is toning nicely. Not alot of premimum but at least I know it's there. Joe

joecool

MrSpud

Sorry it didn't turn out to be a proof. I learned a bit about lincoln proofs due to your posting.
Thanks,
MrSpud

Wolf359

Don, I admire your guts. Always take the shot I say. Heck I scored a Morgan 1900-O micro O on eBay for $13.
The diagnostics of the near date on the obverse gave it away. Graded and slabbed by PCGS this week at G-6. Probably worth
$150 or so.