I made a deal with this seller to purchase this coin. It looks pretty darn nice for a PCI holder. Just wondering if anybody else thinks it looks solid for the grade. link
If the stuff in front of the face is on the coin, it's not 65. If the stuff in front of the face is on the slab, it could be a 65.
I can't see the real color of the coin, but it looks too bright for an original "uncurated" coin from 1931, which are usually more satin than brilliant.
I think the coin Could be a MS65.The marks in front of the face appear to be on the slab.The color appears to have been inhanced.I looked at the color of the coin in the slab.That appears to be closer to the right color.It is definitely a crackout candidate.
<< <i>I think the coin Could be a MS65.The marks in front of the face appear to be on the slab.The color appears to have been inhanced.I looked at the color of the coin in the slab.That appears to be closer to the right color.It is definitely a crackout candidate. >>
<< <i>If the coin were actually an MS65RD, it would not be in a PCI gold label holder.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with Russ, and I think this thread is sad.
Which is a more likely scenario?
1) A truly gem original 1931-S Lincoln is submitted to a third tier grading service where it is accurately graded and then appears on eBay where it is being offered for a starting bid about 1/3 of its value as a PCGS coin in the same condition, or
2) A 1931-S which is either doctored, or possibly even a legit 63 or 64 coin, is submitted to a third tier grading service by someone who knows it will be overgraded and then is offered on eBay for a starting price which is well less than trends for a legit 65RD coin (but still much higher than a legit 64 let alone 63 coin would be worth) until a naive buyer comes along thinking hes getting a deal.
CCU You may of course be correct.We haven't asked what he paid.If he paid MS65 money it may be a bad deal.If he didn't then he may have gotten a good deal.
<< <i>A 1931-S which is either doctored, or possibly even a legit 63 or 64 coin, is submitted to a third tier grading service by someone who knows it will be overgraded >>
Kinda curious as to know "how to be sure it will be overgraded"...
Well CCU that was pretty blunt. Maybe you are right, maybe not. Why you call this thread "sad", I don't understand. I was merely asking for opinions on the coin, and I appreciate the responses, go or bad, but trying to learn a little shouldn't be called a sad thread.
<< <i>CCU You may of course be correct.We haven't asked what he paid.If he paid MS65 money it may be a bad deal.If he didn't then he may have gotten a good deal. >>
Since the seller was starting the bidding at $295, I assume nccoin agreed to buy it for something close to that. But maybe he didn't, maybe he got a fantastic deal and paid 'only' $150.
Of course, this could be a problem if the coin is really only a PCGS MS64RD which is in the price guide at $145. A 63RD is $120. If the coin turns out to have been doctored, its worth squat.
Hard to see how this could possibly have a happy ending.
CCU Not everyone is able to submit to PCGS or NGC.Not everyone has the $'s for submittal to these two grading services.You may be right the coin is overgraded.We won't know until someone sees it in hand.
<< <i>Huh? Have you been asleep since 1982? Why else do people submit coins to third tier companies other than to get them overgraded? >>
Nope.....not been asleep...some people submit coins to other companies for various reasons..I was just wondering how YOU knew it was submitted to be overgraded..that's all...Some people submit because they want it slabbed, some people bought them already slabbed, some people do it for the cost...maybe it was a free submission...I don't know but am not condemming the guy.
Pay with credit card through PayPal and return the coin when you have it in hand if the description and grade are not what the Seller stated or is on the holder.
<< <i>CCU Not everyone is able to submit to PCGS or NGC. >>
Don,
The seller is a high volume dealer who sells coins graded by all of the different services. Doesn't it strike you as a little funny that he chose PCI for this one? There is only one reason for a dealer to submit to PCI - because a coin would not be holdered at the same level by a real grading service.
The fact is CCU is telling it like it is. The vast majority of PCI gold label coins are garbage. I really hope that nccoin got a good deal, but the odds are 99.99% that he didn't.
<< <i>Well CCU that was pretty blunt. Maybe you are right, maybe not. Why you call this thread "sad", I don't understand. I was merely asking for opinions on the coin, and I appreciate the responses, go or bad, but trying to learn a little shouldn't be called a sad thread. >>
I'm sorry for the bluntness. And of course anyone should feel comfortable to ask any question at all with getting some kind of nasty response.
Instead of sad, I wish I had said unfortunate, becuase that is what I think of this situation. A lot of collectors, myself included, have been lured by the idea of finding some underpriced gem on eBay only to end up with a subpar coin which was no bargain.
Maybe you will be lucky and your coin will turn out to be a good coin at a good price - but the odds are not in your favor.
CCU With a (15)day guarentee he will have the oppertunity to examine the coin closely.Even if he doesn't have the grading knowledge,he can show it to someone who does.
Just wanted to give an update. I received the coin today and it is a stunner. The coin is original with a fiery red color and full mint luster. I included some pics from my cheap digital camera. The coin was an excellent buy for 250.00. This "sad thread" has a happy ending.
The first pics made me think wizzed but the second pics show a nice original surface. The coin would not grade MS65 at PCGS but would be put in a 64RD holder.
Russ, you don't know your Lincoln prices very well. A 64 red in a PCGS holder is going between 275-300 right now. Also Russ, it's not always about the money. THE COIN LOOKS GREAT AND I AM HAPPY WITH IT. I guess to some of you people that doesn't matter.
<< <i>A 64 red in a PCGS holder is going between 275-300 right now. >>
Actually, it's in the $180 to $200 range. If it grades MS63, it's worth substantially less.
<< <i>THE COIN LOOKS GREAT AND I AM HAPPY WITH IT. I guess to some of you people that doesn't matter. >>
Yes, it matters. The problem is that a newbie whose goal is a cross to a real grading service might read this thread and assume - without contrary opinion - that third tier slabs are generally okay, and then end up being sorely disappointed.
When you start a thread titled "Opinions of this 1931-S Lincoln please", perhaps you should add a disclaimer that only warm, fuzzy opinons are allowed.
Russ, You find an auction that ended at that price range for a PCGS 64RED with the last month. It wont't happen. I am sure you know your prices for those JFK's as I know the Lincoln prices. Stick to your area of expertise when it comes to quoting prices. Some people just like to argue I guess even when they are wrong. Somebody else feel free to chime in on the prices(someone who knows Lincolns).
<< <i>Russ, You find an auction that ended at that price range for a PCGS 64RED with the last month. It wont't happen. I am sure you know your prices for those JFK's as I know the Lincoln prices. Stick to your area of expertise when it comes to quoting prices. Some people just like to argue I guess even when they are wrong. Somebody else feel free to chime in on the prices(someone who knows Lincolns). >>
Your links proved my point. Nothing between 180-200 within the last month. I said within the last month because it's called a key date, they go up in price monthly.
Consider yourself very lucky you got what seems to be a decent-surfaces coin, even tho it won't merit a 65R in a more respectable holder. Quite frankly you'd be better off busting it out of that slab - though you never know what the condition of the rim might be....
I think Russ has hit the nail on the head with this one. Bottom line: NEVER buy a PCI holdered coin thru EBAY. You should be able to hold it in your hand and inspect it yourself before purchase, or have an iron-clad money back guarantee. IMHO, you will never get this coin into a PCGS holder.
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
Time to put this childish argument with Russ to an end. Neither is going to sway the other so it is time to move on. It just struck a nerve when I updated this post to say I was happpy with the coin and have someone bash you anyway. I am sure someone will have to leave one more post to get in the last word.
I know Lincolns; IMO; and I have a PCGS 65RD and your coin is not as nice. I'd have to aggree with Russ on this, you paid a little high on this one. On the other hand if you like the coin then all's well that ends well.
Comments
Glen
I can't see the real color of the coin, but it looks too bright for an original "uncurated" coin from 1931, which are usually more satin than brilliant.
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Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I don't believe retoned.I think it is the photshop color.IMHO
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>I think the coin Could be a MS65.The marks in front of the face appear to be on the slab.The color appears to have been inhanced.I looked at the color of the coin in the slab.That appears to be closer to the right color.It is definitely a crackout candidate. >>
i concur with merz2
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>If the coin were actually an MS65RD, it would not be in a PCI gold label holder.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with Russ, and I think this thread is sad.
Which is a more likely scenario?
1) A truly gem original 1931-S Lincoln is submitted to a third tier grading service where it is accurately graded and then appears on eBay where it is being offered for a starting bid about 1/3 of its value as a PCGS coin in the same condition, or
2) A 1931-S which is either doctored, or possibly even a legit 63 or 64 coin, is submitted to a third tier grading service by someone who knows it will be overgraded and then is offered on eBay for a starting price which is well less than trends for a legit 65RD coin (but still much higher than a legit 64 let alone 63 coin would be worth) until a naive buyer comes along thinking hes getting a deal.
You may of course be correct.We haven't asked what he paid.If he paid MS65 money it may be a bad deal.If he didn't then he may have gotten a good deal.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>A 1931-S which is either doctored, or possibly even a legit 63 or 64 coin, is submitted to a third tier grading service by someone who knows it will be overgraded >>
Kinda curious as to know "how to be sure it will be overgraded"...
<< <i>Kinda curious as to know "how to be sure it will be overgraded"... >>
Huh? Have you been asleep since 1982? Why else do people submit coins to third tier companies other than to get them overgraded?
<< <i>CCU
You may of course be correct.We haven't asked what he paid.If he paid MS65 money it may be a bad deal.If he didn't then he may have gotten a good deal. >>
Since the seller was starting the bidding at $295, I assume nccoin agreed to buy it for something close to that. But maybe he didn't, maybe he got a fantastic deal and paid 'only' $150.
Of course, this could be a problem if the coin is really only a PCGS MS64RD which is in the price guide at $145. A 63RD is $120. If the coin turns out to have been doctored, its worth squat.
Hard to see how this could possibly have a happy ending.
Not everyone is able to submit to PCGS or NGC.Not everyone has the $'s for submittal to these two grading services.You may be right the coin is overgraded.We won't know until someone sees it in hand.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>Huh? Have you been asleep since 1982? Why else do people submit coins to third tier companies other than to get them overgraded? >>
Nope.....not been asleep...some people submit coins to other companies for various reasons..I was just wondering how YOU knew it was submitted to be overgraded..that's all...Some people submit because they want it slabbed, some people bought them already slabbed, some people do it for the cost...maybe it was a free submission...I don't know but am not condemming the guy.
<< <i>CCU
Not everyone is able to submit to PCGS or NGC. >>
Don,
The seller is a high volume dealer who sells coins graded by all of the different services. Doesn't it strike you as a little funny that he chose PCI for this one? There is only one reason for a dealer to submit to PCI - because a coin would not be holdered at the same level by a real grading service.
The fact is CCU is telling it like it is. The vast majority of PCI gold label coins are garbage. I really hope that nccoin got a good deal, but the odds are 99.99% that he didn't.
Russ, NCNE
Suppose the dealer bought it in the PCI holder.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>Suppose the dealer bought it in the PCI holder. >>
That would not alter the fact that the overwhelming odds are that it's going to be junk.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Well CCU that was pretty blunt. Maybe you are right, maybe not. Why you call this thread "sad", I don't understand. I was merely asking for opinions on the coin, and I appreciate the responses, go or bad, but trying to learn a little shouldn't be called a sad thread. >>
I'm sorry for the bluntness. And of course anyone should feel comfortable to ask any question at all with getting some kind of nasty response.
Instead of sad, I wish I had said unfortunate, becuase that is what I think of this situation. A lot of collectors, myself included, have been lured by the idea of finding some underpriced gem on eBay only to end up with a subpar coin which was no bargain.
Maybe you will be lucky and your coin will turn out to be a good coin at a good price - but the odds are not in your favor.
With a (15)day guarentee he will have the oppertunity to examine the coin closely.Even if he doesn't have the grading knowledge,he can show it to someone who does.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>The coin would not grade MS65 at PCGS but would be put in a 64RD holder. >>
Agreed. Which places it's value at substantially less than $250.
Russ, NCNE
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>A 64 red in a PCGS holder is going between 275-300 right now. >>
Actually, it's in the $180 to $200 range. If it grades MS63, it's worth substantially less.
<< <i>THE COIN LOOKS GREAT AND I AM HAPPY WITH IT. I guess to some of you people that doesn't matter. >>
Yes, it matters. The problem is that a newbie whose goal is a cross to a real grading service might read this thread and assume - without contrary opinion - that third tier slabs are generally okay, and then end up being sorely disappointed.
When you start a thread titled "Opinions of this 1931-S Lincoln please", perhaps you should add a disclaimer that only warm, fuzzy opinons are allowed.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Russ, You find an auction that ended at that price range for a PCGS 64RED with the last month. It wont't happen. I am sure you know your prices for those JFK's as I know the Lincoln prices. Stick to your area of expertise when it comes to quoting prices. Some people just like to argue I guess even when they are wrong. Somebody else feel free to chime in on the prices(someone who knows Lincolns). >>
PCGS MS64RD - $180.
PCGS MS64RD - $190.
PCGS MS64RD - $208.
PCGS MS64RD - NO SALE at $280.
PCGS MS64RD - NO SALE at $248.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Your links proved my point. Nothing between 180-200 within the last month. >>
Oh yeah, one was a whole $8 over that - in the last month.
<< <i>A 64 red in a PCGS holder is going between 275-300 right now. >>
PCGS MS64RD - NO SALE at $280.
PCGS MS64RD - NO SALE at $248.
Both in the last month.
Okay, now where are your links showing them going for "275-300" in the last month?
<< <i>Some people just like to argue I guess even when they are wrong. >>
That's true. I just don't happen to be one of them.
Russ, NCNE
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
The price was more than the coin.
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.