1 oz. gold bullion...$50 legal tender?

TheLiberator

I don't understand that. Does the mint/government just assign some arbitrary value to the coin to make it a legal tender coin? Obviously nobody would try to pass gold bullion as 50 bucks at a hardware store or anything so this always seemed strange. Can anyone explain this to me?

XpipedreamR

A few months ago, a board member had some teens pass one at his store, if I remember correctly.

SportsModerator

<< <i>Obviously nobody would try to pass gold bullion as 50 bucks at a hardware store or anything so this always seemed strange >>



Incorrect! In fact, one of the gals on the open forum who works in a large store received one in a cashier's till, bought it herself for $50, and sold it to another board member for about 400.00. True!

There are some really brilliant people in the world.

The face value, I'm sure is purely arbitrary

ddink

<< <i>I don't understand that. Does the mint/government just assign some arbitrary value to the coin to make it a legal tender coin? >>



Yes.

Brianruns10

That is exactly the idea. The silver, gold and platinum bullion coins are legal tender, but to deter people from actually spending them, the government assigned an outrageously low face value. But, believe it or not, it still happens. A friend of mine was in line to pay at a gas station once, and the guy ahead of him paid partially with a silver eagle. My friend requested it in his change, and the cashier obliged. It's a good crime finder, if you think about it. If anyone ever spends a gold piece, you can bet the farm he stole it.
Hope this helped.
Best,
BR

nwcs

There is no law that the denomination of a coin must match its intrinsic value. That's why we have clad. They can assign any denomination they like. There have been reports of thieves who spent $20 St. Gaudens coins as $20 coins. Just goes to show that most criminals are stupid.

TheLiberator

<< <i>There is no law that the denomination of a coin must match its intrinsic value. That's why we have clad. They can assign any denomination they like. There have been reports of thieves who spent $20 St. Gaudens coins as $20 coins. Just goes to show that most criminals are stupid. >>



Amazing! I wish I could have had the good fortune of having a criminal pass me one of those while I was making minimum wage in high school!

Russ

<< <i>I wish I could have had the good fortune of having a criminal pass me one of those while I was making minimum wage in high school! >>



Yep, then you could have graduated from highschool to a jail cell.

Russ, NCNE

TheLiberator

<< <i>

<< <i>I wish I could have had the good fortune of having a criminal pass me one of those while I was making minimum wage in high school! >>



Yep, then you could have graduated from highschool to a jail cell.

Russ, NCNE >>



Oh yeah..I guess you are right! Forgot about that little part! heheheh

Bochiman

<< <i>

<< <i>I wish I could have had the good fortune of having a criminal pass me one of those while I was making minimum wage in high school! >>



Yep, then you could have graduated from highschool to a jail cell.

Russ, NCNE >>



That's actually a local running joke. The town I live in has a state reformatory (prison) right next door to the new high school (they built the high school in this location just a few years ago...the prison was already there).
We always joke that it is an incentive for kids to graduate for real or else graduate next door
They are actually so close to each other, a good athlete could throw a baseball from one to the other....

To keep on topic with the thread......I could see one honest scenario where someone could "spend" one of the bullion pieces for face value......where someone who is NOT knowledgable inherits them and does not believe they are the actual precious metal and then thinks to spend them. Sadly, I can imagine some people I know may fall into that....nice people but not the brightest and may not think to ask someone before doing something like that.

I guess though, that the usual people on here will say that is their fault for not asking first before doing it....I just can't help but feel sad for people who do stuff like that (unless they are just so wealthy it doesn't matter...but, it is usually the people who need the money the most who get taken advantage of in cases like this).


And, yes, as others have said, it is arbitrary.....else, the values would turn out better in proportion....
1oz = $50
1/2oz = $25
1/4oz = $10 ??? (should be $12.50 but that doesn't look as good )
1/10oz = $5

mnmcoin

A little bit ago I that I play softball told me someone came into the Kragen Auto Part store his son worked at, I think in Hemet with a few $20 St. Gaudens. The total was $48 or something like that and paid with three of them. The asst. manager, knew a little about coins and thought this was odd, he accepted them but felt a little suspicious. He told the guy that if he took them to a local coin store he could get alot more for them. The guy sounded like he was kind of oblivious, but it sounded like he would go. So the asst. manager called the police and the police waited in the coin store for the guy to come in and when he did they busted him. In searching the perps car they found a trunk full of coins and jewelry the guy had hiested over the last few months. Turns out he was cracking the $20 Saints out of slabs with a hammer.

Some guys have all the brains

morris <><

Prometheus183

It's not arbitrary, they're only worth $50 each.
But, out of the goodness of my heart, I will pay you $60 for every $50 gold eagle you send to me.

Craig

Weiss

TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER II > Sec. 5112


(f) Silver Coins. -

(1) Sale price. -
The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under subsection (e) to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).

(2) Bulk sales. -
The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under subsection (e) at a reasonable discount.

(3) Numismatic items. -
For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) shall be considered to be numismatic items.

(g)
For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.

(h)
The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender as provided in section 5103 of this title.
(i)
(1)
Notwithstanding section 5111(a)(1) of this title, the Secretary shall mint and issue the gold coins described in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) of this section, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand, and such gold coins shall -
(A)
have a design determined by the Secretary, except that the fifty dollar gold coin shall have -
(i)
on the obverse side, a design symbolic of Liberty; and
(ii)
on the reverse side, a design representing a family of eagles, with the male carrying an olive branch and flying above a nest containing a female eagle and hatchlings;
(B)
have inscriptions of the denomination, the weight of the fine gold content, the year of minting or issuance, and the words ''Liberty'', ''In God We Trust'', ''United States of America'', and ''E Pluribus Unum''; and
(C)
have reeded edges.
(2)
(A)
The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under this subsection to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, and promotional and overhead expenses).
(B)
The Secretary shall make bulk sales of the coins minted under this subsection at a reasonable discount.
(3)
For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
(4)
(A)
Notwithstanding any other provision of law and subject to subparagraph (B), the Secretary of the Treasury may change the diameter, weight, or design of any coin minted under this subsection or the fineness of the gold in the alloy of any such coin if the Secretary determines that the specific diameter, weight, design, or fineness of gold which differs from that otherwise required by law is appropriate for such coin.
(B)
The Secretary may not mint any coin with respect to which a determination has been made by the Secretary under subparagraph (A) before the end of the 30-day period beginning on the date a notice of such determination is published in the Federal Register.
(C)
The Secretary may continue to mint and issue coins in accordance with the specifications contained in paragraphs (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection (a) and paragraph (1)(A) of this subsection at the same time the Secretary in minting and issuing other bullion and proof gold coins under this subsection in accordance with such program procedures and coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe from time to time.

And for those scoring at home:

Sec. 5103. - Legal tender
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts

TommyB

One of the lowest form of bottom feeding scum suckers would be a person who accepts a $50 gold piece at face value. Rot in hell!

DominusDeus

If I ever got the chance to accept a $50 piece at face value, I would gladly rot in hell. Oh, wait, I'm Atheist.

roadrunner

Do not forget the sublime side of this. That is that the govt could change the law and legally confiscate your gold coins, paying the current rate listed at the US Treasury, which is $34 per oz. This was done in 1933 when the govt confiscated all 1 oz gold coins for the princely sum of $20, and then turned right around and repriced gold at $34.50/oz. This made a nice 70% gain for the govt while devaluing the dollars everyone had just received. Utter genius. So there is precedent for keeping a low price on the books....in case they need to do it again during " economic and currency" upsets.

roadrunner

TommyB

and one with no class as well

DominusDeus

You say that someone who takes money at face value, which is absolutly acceptable AND legal, should rot in hell, and because (and I'm assuming) that I'm an Atheist, that I, and/or we, have no class?

And yet you use slander. Hypocrisy. Cute.

If only this board had an ignore feature (if it does, feel free to PM me to where it is.).

TommyB

Oh, why don't you go roll a few homeless people while you are at it!

ddink

<< <i>You say that someone who takes money at face value, which is absolutly acceptable AND legal, should rot in hell, and because (and I'm assuming) that I'm an Atheist, that I, and/or we, have no class? >>



"lord god:" The last half of that sentence didn't make much sense to me--too many commas, slashes, and parentheticals.

michael

many countries in the world do it


its called


NCLT

non circulating legal tender






michael

DominusDeus

<< <i>Oh, why don't you go roll a few homeless people while you are at it! >>


Congratulations. You made a fool of yourself.

honeywah

<< <i>One of the lowest form of bottom feeding scum suckers would be a person who accepts a $50 gold piece at face value. Rot in hell! >>



I beg your pardon sir!! That bottom feeding scum sucking person was me. The girl was over 18......knew what she had....was asked a number of times was she sure. I held it for over two weeks in case someone came in the store( like a pissed off parent) and wanted it back. So before you open your mouth and insert your foot......get the story straight sir!!!!!

P.S. By the way......I am a SHE not a HE.

DominusDeus

<< <i>

<< <i>One of the lowest form of bottom feeding scum suckers would be a person who accepts a $50 gold piece at face value. Rot in hell! >>



I beg your pardon sir!! That bottom feeding scum sucking person was me. The girl was over 18......knew what she had....was asked a number of times was she sure. I held it for over two weeks in case someone came in the store( like a pissed off parent) and wanted it back. So before you open your mouth and insert your foot......get the story straight sir!!!!!

P.S. By the way......I am a SHE not a HE. >>



Hear, hear! *clinks glass*

TommyB

I hope you get yours someday.

TommyB

Let me ask you this, did you ask the girl if she really wanted to use that gold piece. or did you tell her it was worth several hundred dollars? I doubt it. Some people really suck.

honeywah

<< <i>I hope you get yours someday. >>



I already got it......and sold it to a coin dealer for $407.00

honeywah

<< <i>Let me ask you this, did you ask the girl if she really wanted to use that gold piece. or did you tell her it was worth several hundred dollars? I doubt it. Some people really suck. >>



Did you not read what I said???!!!! She was asked a number of times if she was sure she wanted to sell the coin for 50.00.

TommyB

So, basically you took advantage of someone not so well off mentally as you (which I am not sure about). You ripped them off. They did not know what it was worth. But you make it sound OK by asking them if they were sure they wanted to use that coin. You did nothing to help that person out. YLB

honeywah

Sir......put down the crack pipe!!!!! Get of your high horse.
When did I ever say the girl was mentally challenged?
She was over 18......Said yes I'm sure I want to sell it for 50.00. I have 3 more at home my mother gave me.

TommyB

What does her age have to do with it? If she was 17 would you have helped her out a little by telling her the whole story? When a person hits 18, then it's ok to rip them off?

TommyB

You know what you did was wrong because you held on to it for a couple of weeks in case anybody got pissed off. I am surprised you didn't tell her to come back and you would take the other 3 off of her hands all at once.

good night sweetheart, nice dreams!

Smitty79

Sounds like someone is jealous.

puff

<< <i>Sounds like someone is jealous. >>



I agree Smitty.

Makarovii

<< <i>Sounds like someone is jealous. >>

hamiltonjh

Gold, silver...whatever.

An MS66 State Quarter might be "worth" $20. Is someone that knows something about coinage that works behind a cash register going to say "hey, that quarter is woth $20. You should use another quarter if you have one". I dont think so. I go thru our snackbar change all the time lookin for good state quarters. so? is THAT wrong? Someone used it as .25 and if I can get $20, what the heck.

If honey tried to tell the girl it's better to use something else or whatever, then it's not her fault. It's the "spenders" or "givers" fault. Whatever you want to call her.

Smitty79

puff

<< <i>Gold, silver...whatever.

An MS66 State Quarter might be "worth" $20. Is someone that knows something about coinage that works behind a cash register going to say "hey, that quarter is woth $20. You should use another quarter if you have one". I dont think so. I go thru our snackbar change all the time lookin for good state quarters. so? is THAT wrong? Someone used it as .25 and if I can get $20, what the heck.

If honey tried to tell the girl it's better to use something else or whatever, then it's not her fault. It's the "spenders" or "givers" fault. Whatever you want to call her. >>



I think the scum sucker is smoeone other than Honey in my ever so humble opinion!

DominusDeus

In the words of the man in my avatar, "Most people don't act stupid... it's the real thing!"

I'm sure you can figure out who I'm refering to. Some people just need to calm the hell down and realize that their way isn't the only way, and their way isn't going to happen every damn time. Deal with it. And if you don't like it, leave.

I'm fairly certain that if someone offered you a gold piece for face value, you'd snatch it up just as fast as the next guy.

person 1: Here ya go, sonny. A 50 dollar gold piece! You can have it for 50 bucks!
person 2: But sir, I must pay you more than what you're offering! It's GOLD for cripes sake!
person 1: It doesn't matter, sonny. I have no further use for it. 50 dollars, still want it?
person 2: No sir, I will not trade you 50 dollars for 50 dollars.
person 1: You're loss, sonny.
person 3: Hey mister! I have 50 dollars, I'll take it!
person 1: It's a done deal!

ddink

TommyB: Many are familiar with the story of the man who was shopping at the flea market and bought an old (ugly) painting for $3 with the intentions of trashing the painting and keeping the frame, which was pretty. When he took the back off the frame, he found one of the original (as in first-printing, not handwritten) copies of the Declaration of Independance. He later sold it for $2.2 million. Doubtlessly, according to your logic, you would have gone back to the seller of the picture and begged him to take the $2.2 million.

As far as the $50 gold coin goes, had she (the cashier) not taken it, someone else would have. So get off your high, noble white steed and join the rest of us in the real world

MadMonk

I could be wrong, but I thought that the 50.00 face value was based on the official U.S. Govt. price of gold. If that is truly the case, I hope another 1933 episode doesnt happen.