Got a sniping response from Ebay...if anyone cares
Aknot
Posts: 1,196 ✭✭
Well my original question was:
I understand the concept of "sniping" and have no problem when
people are actually doing the sniping. I do however feell using third
party "programs" to aid in this practice is "wrong" at best. Is Ebay
looking into possibly "blocking" sniping services and or servers?
And the response:
Hello,
Thanks for writing to us. My name is Richard, and I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you.
First of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in responding and
I appreciate your patience while we were working on your request.
Recently, our email volume levels have been extremely high due to the
unforeseen site issues that the eBay community have been experiencing. I
would like to assure you that you have my full attention.
Although we don't suggest this method of bidding, it is one that some
Buyers use. We are always continuing to improve our site to prevent this
type of behavior. Even if we came up with a way to prevent this, there's
always someone out there programming something else to get around our
fixes. We understand your concern in this matter though and we really
appreciate your time in bringing this important issue to us. Please look
for a fix in the upcoming future.
I hope I have been of some assistance to you in this matter. Thank you
for being part of the eBay community, and have a great eBay day!
With best regards,
Richard Y.
eBay Customer Support
For all its worth Ebay apparently does not "condone" program "run" sniping and is apparently looking into stopping it in the near future. We shall see.
I understand the concept of "sniping" and have no problem when
people are actually doing the sniping. I do however feell using third
party "programs" to aid in this practice is "wrong" at best. Is Ebay
looking into possibly "blocking" sniping services and or servers?
And the response:
Hello,
Thanks for writing to us. My name is Richard, and I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you.
First of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in responding and
I appreciate your patience while we were working on your request.
Recently, our email volume levels have been extremely high due to the
unforeseen site issues that the eBay community have been experiencing. I
would like to assure you that you have my full attention.
Although we don't suggest this method of bidding, it is one that some
Buyers use. We are always continuing to improve our site to prevent this
type of behavior. Even if we came up with a way to prevent this, there's
always someone out there programming something else to get around our
fixes. We understand your concern in this matter though and we really
appreciate your time in bringing this important issue to us. Please look
for a fix in the upcoming future.
I hope I have been of some assistance to you in this matter. Thank you
for being part of the eBay community, and have a great eBay day!
With best regards,
Richard Y.
eBay Customer Support
For all its worth Ebay apparently does not "condone" program "run" sniping and is apparently looking into stopping it in the near future. We shall see.
0
Comments
And not possible, either. If they try to block sniper's IP addresses, they will just keep jumping them around. Not to mention, the poor customer relations that would bring. Nobody seems to have a problem with this, sellers or buyers. It's just become a fact of online auction life. If you are bidding your max anyway, and it's high enough, the snipe won't be an issue.
first of all, how in the world did you get to actually talk to a human at ebay?
I didn't know ebay had any contact options
run by robots? maybe. stupid robots? most likely.
I ditto ctsoxfan!
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I first found out about online auctions I used Yahoo a few times. Didn't they have something where if you received a bid in like the last five minutes of an auction, the auction was automatically extended by a half an hour or something? Wouldn't this work better for the sellers and for Ebay because it would increase the final price? >>
Excellent! That would and could be, genius. If they set it up that way and just extended the auction another 5 minutes each time a new bid was placed in the last 5 minutes, everyone would still get a shot to bid, and eventually the auction would end fairly and be rewarded to the highest bidder. No one could complain then.
Eventually people would drop out of bidding on any given auction with this situation, and only the people who truly wanted the card would hang around and keep bidding each time it was "renewed". Once the auction was extended, anyone that didn't like the current price would not bid again. Slowly more and more people would drop out and the highest bidder would win the card AFTER everyone else was given a fair shot at bidding. Whether you knew about sniping or not.
Very interesting. I snipe, but I wouldn't mind seeing it go this way either. tell me this wouldn't bring in more $$$ for Ebay. They may be losing out on $$ with the current method. Keep extending it an additional 5 minutes, and the bid amount would keep increasing. The seller and Ebay would be happy about that. And no one could complain about not having a legit shot at winning any particular auction.
TheRoach
don't be such a crybaby, if you want to win an auction, just bid more. Don't blame it on the sniping service.
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
Joe
<< <i>Aknot,
don't be such a crybaby, if you want to win an auction, just bid more. Don't blame it on the sniping service. >>
Hmm lets see I could respond by telling you to shut your mouth and if you do not like the topic dont read it nor comment. But since you may be "joking" I will just inform you that this was a topic awhile ago and someone suggested we contact Ebay and see what they want. So I did.
You know I sit back and listen to people running their mouth around here and try to be "quiet" being the "new guy" and all, but no more. Why dont you shut up? If you do not have anything intelligent to say in a topic shut your pie hole and let people talk. Ignore the topic and keep walking.
edited to say: now now lets play nice
<< <i>don't be such a crybaby, if you want to win an auction, just bid more. Don't blame it on the sniping service >>
I'm not trying to make this worse - just want to put my part in to clarify the discussion - we have been talking about sniping for a few days and Jim took the time to talk to ebay - I think his point of view is valid and NOT crying - I don't think it is productive to take someones position and dismiss it as complaining if it differs from another's point of view. I'm not digging at KM since I think he's a good guy but in this instance I feel I should support a fellow contributor.
Mike
Of course, I'm cynical that way.
Just Morrie
Collector of Cards
Had an emergency Root Canal this morning (my first).
KM,
If you have read any of my previous post on this subject you would find out that to the best of my knowledge I have never been sniped. Sniping by a "human" and being sniped by a "program" are two different "beast" and have nothing to do with each other. I find the sniping with a program/server a bit on the "taking away from the purpose of an auction".
As for someone earlier comment about the "add 5 mins" that would be a nice change of pace.
As for the comment about Ebay commenting, I have had nothing but 24/48 hour turnaround from both Ebay and Paypal when I have a problem/question.
lothar52
I find Aknot's posts to be interesting reading. There is no need for strongly worded personal affronts.
I personally use snipes exclusively for a couple of reasons.1)I don't have the time to set around and watch auctions.2)It allows me to bid at the last possible time without tipping my hand as to what cards that I am bidding on,thus keeping people from artificially raising my buy price.This used to seem to be happening quite frequently before I started sniping.I would like to think that E-Bay would first address the problems of people that are ripping off buyers(that has happened to me twice),shill bidders,retaliatory feedback(the feedback system is seriously flawed in my opinion),and their lack of revenue protection(sellers pulling auctions without a penalty)before they addressed a situation that obviously brings them increased revenue.They are right in that there will always be a way around the sniping programs.
Just my .02 worth.
Vic
As for extending bidding, I believe this would drive off numerous biders who would be unwilling to patcipate in open ended competition. But, of course, some sellers may think this is great, but only because they didn't realize that there are fewer bidders participating.
In the end, everyone bids what they are willing to pay. If you get the item, congratulations. If you don't, then someone wanted it more than you, whether it was a snipe ot not.
Just my thoughts.
Gary
The only thing is you can put "100" snipes in with a program (just using a number) where as in "real life" you can only do one maybe 2 at a time.
While "most" auctions dont end at the same time there is enoguh of a "time buffer" that factors in. With sniping you do nothing.
I disagree with the idea that it is wrong to use a third party vendor or software to place a snipe. The way I look at it, for the most part I am paying another company to perform a service for me and hopefully save me money. Sniping is a fantastic tool for the avid Ebayer and I certainly hope it is around for a very long time, however you do raise a very serious point in that Ebay may indeed look to do away with it somehow. This is made even more a reality by the way Ebay has so far made money in any way it can, which I have no problem with. However I can forsee Ebay creating a tool, very similar to their so called insurance plan, and in their own way encouraging users to use their sniping service.
The Internet, Ebay, sniping services, shill bidding, private auctions, ahhhh where have the days gone when you could sit and talk with a dealer, trade stories, develop a repoir, argue about a card or player and come back and do it all over again.
AKA..
Ebay - mpn2gwvputty
Ratso of the Booze Junkies MC
Glad to hear eBay want us to look for a fix in the "upcoming future".
I hate it when they want us to look into the "past future" for a fix.
That out-source kid in India, that responded to Aknot's question, needs to work on his English.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>It's eBay. My guess as to their idea of a "fix" would be to create their own sniping service which guarantees "last bid" to those who pay to use it.
Of course, I'm cynical that way.
Just Morrie
Collector of Cards >>
Yeah, I saw the words "Please look for a fix in the upcoming future," but it registered as "We will be buying www.esnipe.com in the very near future."
As an avid Ebay buyer -- I love sniping!!
How can anyone not like sniping? The rules of an auction state a specific ending time. And if a bid is placed before that specific time, then it is a valid bid -- whether it is placed 5 days, 5 hours, or 5 seconds before that posted auction ending time.
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
What troubles you in particular to 3rd party snipes...what if I ask a friend to bid...that's a 3rd party...
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets
<< <i>Aknot,
don't be such a crybaby, if you want to win an auction, just bid more. Don't blame it on the sniping service. >>
I feel kinda guilty for not responding on this thread yet. I am actually the one that said I would look into whT Ebay thought about the whole sniping thing anyway. I never got around to it, so Aknot took the liberty of talking with the Ebay LIVE HELP group about this matter.
Alot of people were making comments about "looking out for the other sellers" when I told others that I made/make offers to sellers to end their auction early. This is a very effective way for me to get a card I want and not have to wait for the end of the auction. People were upset that I was dodging Ebay charges whenever I did this, and I explained that I didn't care too much because I didn't do it all the time, and Ebay never did anything for me anyway the few times I was burned on cards. It was a ethical issue, and I guess I didn't have any in some people's eyes. Whatever.
I was really interested in how many of the people that were bashing me about asking sellers to end the auction early, were actually upset about me skipping out on Ebay fees, or was it the fact that other Ebayers could not have a fair shot at the card that I was getting from the dealer. It seemed that alot of the responses were indeed concerned about other sellers that may have bid on the auctions that I asked a seller to end for me. Understood.
I had alot of people saying that it sucks when you have a bid on a card that has a few days, minutes, seconds, to go on the auction and then it gets ended because the seller sold it off Ebay. These people were complaining that all of the others did not get a fair shot at that card because the auction was ended.
I brought up the whole sniping issue and explained that I didn't think that this way was very fair for other collectors either. Everyone talks about how great it is to win the card in the final seconds. What I don't get is, what is the difference between putting in your max bid seconds before the auction is over, or 3 days before it is over? That is what most people complain about when we bring up this issue. "QUIT CRYING" "NEXT TIME BID MORE". "IF YOU PUT YOUR MAX BID IN AND YOU DIDN'T WIN IT, THERE'S NOTHING YOU COULD DO".
I agree. So let's say that you are willing to pay $100 for any given card. If you put your bid in 3 days before it ends, and get outbid seconds later, that's life right? That was your max bid anyway, right? But if you wait until the final seconds, maybe you can deprive all of those people who would have outbid you, of a fair chance to do so now. Just maybe they don't have snipe programs?
Everyone wants the card at the cheapest price possible. trust me - I agree 100%. But let's not sit here and say that sniping is definitely not depriving other Ebayers a shot at the card, or Ebay itself some extra $$$. That would be ridiculous. If everyone had to put their max bid in and win an auction thatway instead of trying to guess what the minimum bid they needed to make was in the final few seconds to beat out the current high bidder, Ebay would make more $$$ for sure.
Read my last sentence, because that is usually what happens when sniping. Most people are not putting their max bid, they are just trying to out bid the current high bidder by the least amount possible. in 99% of the sniping cases, if the sniper had one more chance to get in another bid because his original snipe amount was not enough, they would. So, having said that, most snipers aren't putting in their max bids either. Just my opinion on this matter.
Thanks for looking into this Aknot. I have your back in this matter even though I am a sniper also.
I may be flat out SKIPPING Ebay fees when I make a deal with another seller to end his auction early, but i sincerely believe that sniping is DEPRIVING Ebay of money during this method of bidding. And the funny thing is that we are both doing it for the same reason. To get the card as cheap as we possibly can.
TheRoach
1) It is a computer/server that does the bidding to get in the bid at the "last possible" moment. Having a friend bid and you bidding at the last possible moment is not the same thing.
2) You (as a seller, buyer and observer) see no "movement" or desire for said item until the last minutes/seconds. It is hard to tell if someone stumbled upon the product and said "ooo got to have it" or it was a snipe program with all that activity. This is a "tool" to tell you how well/much antother product of the same ilk may fair in the future whether you are the seller or buyer.
3) While you are suppposed to put yor highest bid in first, MAYBE you lost out on another and have more money to spend. So now you look at another auction see that there is NO activity on your highest bid so watch in the last few minutes. Because of sniping you may not be able to get your bid in.
4) No "human" interaction. My view is an auction is "interactive". Meaning you make an offer someone counteroffers, you counteroffer that or maybe walk away for a few hours/days, come back etc. Sniping removes that.
5) Decreases the said "value" of an item to people watching from the outside. MOST times yes this about "money". Sniping removes what I described above in 4 and 2 and may "falsely" deflated an item because people were unable to "counter-offer". As for pushing the price UP, well if you put that $ amount in you wanted to pay that dollar amount. So obviously it was worth it to you. (see 3 above for the people that say "put highest bid in first")
Again this is MY OPINION which when I woke up this morning in the greatest free country in the world, am entitled to.
1) It saves me time
2) It saves me money
So you get stuff cheaper and faster? So people see continue to loose at "low" prices. They might "give" up on Ebay and go other routes. ESPECIALLY if they are unaware of the sniping programs. It does not bode well for the hobby as a whole, as you are not getting the "infuse" of new blood. You are not getting the "everyone gets a fair chance".
Anyway my jaw is aching and you are probably tired of reading this.
For the record I do not believe I have ever lost a auction to a snipe and that is the furthest reason I would have this stance.
****EDIT**** Posted while Roach was posting his.....did not get a chance to read his yet.
As a seller, my cards tend to go for what the market is bearing at the time. If all of the activity takes place in the last 30 seconds then so be it. The first 167 hours 59 minutes and 30 seconds was just marketing time then. In my experience, anti-sniping people tend to be people who are either to cheap to pay $5/month for justsnipe.com or are people who are ticked that their unsophisticated bidding gets topped at the end.
There is nothing unethical about bidding at the last second whether manually or through a software program. People need to stop whining about the rules being unfair and either play the game or sit on the sidelines. Okay -- there's my pre-church rant for today.
<< <i>
<< <i>Aknot,
don't be such a crybaby, if you want to win an auction, just bid more. Don't blame it on the sniping service. >>
I feel kinda guilty for not responding on this thread yet. I am actually the one that said I would look into whT Ebay thought about the whole sniping thing anyway. I never got around to it, so Aknot took the liberty of talking with the Ebay LIVE HELP group about this matter.
Alot of people were making comments about "looking out for the other sellers" when I told others that I made/make offers to sellers to end their auction early. This is a very effective way for me to get a card I want and not have to wait for the end of the auction. People were upset that I was dodging Ebay charges whenever I did this, and I explained that I didn't care too much because I didn't do it all the time, and Ebay never did anything for me anyway the few times I was burned on cards. It was a ethical issue, and I guess I didn't have any in some people's eyes. Whatever.
I was really interested in how many of the people that were bashing me about asking sellers to end the auction early, were actually upset about me skipping out on Ebay fees, or was it the fact that other Ebayers could not have a fair shot at the card that I was getting from the dealer. It seemed that alot of the responses were indeed concerned about other sellers that may have bid on the auctions that I asked a seller to end for me. Understood.
I had alot of people saying that it sucks when you have a bid on a card that has a few days, minutes, seconds, to go on the auction and then it gets ended because the seller sold it off Ebay. These people were complaining that all of the others did not get a fair shot at that card because the auction was ended.
I brought up the whole sniping issue and explained that I didn't think that this way was very fair for other collectors either. Everyone talks about how great it is to win the card in the final seconds. What I don't get is, what is the difference between putting in your max bid seconds before the auction is over, or 3 days before it is over? That is what most people complain about when we bring up this issue. "QUIT CRYING" "NEXT TIME BID MORE". "IF YOU PUT YOUR MAX BID IN AND YOU DIDN'T WIN IT, THERE'S NOTHING YOU COULD DO".
I agree. So let's say that you are willing to pay $100 for any given card. If you put your bid in 3 days before it ends, and get outbid seconds later, that's life right? That was your max bid anyway, right? But if you wait until the final seconds, maybe you can deprive all of those people who would have outbid you, of a fair chance to do so now. Just maybe they don't have snipe programs?
Everyone wants the card at the cheapest price possible. trust me - I agree 100%. But let's not sit here and say that sniping is definitely not depriving other Ebayers a shot at the card, or Ebay itself some extra $$$. That would be ridiculous. If everyone had to put their max bid in and win an auction thatway instead of trying to guess what the minimum bid they needed to make was in the final few seconds to beat out the current high bidder, Ebay would make more $$$ for sure.
Read my last sentence, because that is usually what happens when sniping. Most people are not putting their max bid, they are just trying to out bid the current high bidder by the least amount possible. in 99% of the sniping cases, if the sniper had one more chance to get in another bid because his original snipe amount was not enough, they would. So, having said that, most snipers aren't putting in their max bids either. Just my opinion on this matter.
Thanks for looking into this Aknot. I have your back in this matter even though I am a sniper also.
I may be flat out SKIPPING Ebay fees when I make a deal with another seller to end his auction early, but i sincerely believe that sniping is DEPRIVING Ebay of money during this method of bidding. And the funny thing is that we are both doing it for the same reason. To get the card as cheap as we possibly can.
TheRoach
Want it now dont care how I get it as long as there is no LETTER BY LETTER LAW WITH PERFECT PUNCUATION saying I cant.
Again I have never to the best of my knowledge lost a bid to a sniping program.
Again with the whining comment. Lets see what makes it whining? Im stating a fact, that apparently others agree with to include possibly Ebay, that sniping with a 3rd party program/server is "against the rules"?
See the people that come back and say "stop whining, stop complaining" are probably the same ones that look the other way as long as something does not "effect" them. O wait, it will, you will actually have to do something other then letting a program do it for you.
Come up with a reason that everyone can benefit from.
Heres an even better response:
People need to stop whining about the rules being unfair and either play the game or sit on the sidelines.
These "auctions" are not hidden bid auctions. They are supposed to be "living" auctions. Meaning they "move" throughout the life of the auction.
Anyway you people are going to do what you are going to regardless of rules. AND once (if) those rules are in place you will more then likely attempt to find a way to circumvent them.
I think (I doubt it) im done with my preaching. I will attempt to stay away.
<< <i>They might "give" up on Ebay and go other routes. ESPECIALLY if they are unaware of the sniping programs. It does not bode well for the hobby as a whole, as you are not getting the "infuse" of new blood. You are not getting the "everyone gets a fair chance". >>
Not to keep beating what should be a dead horse...but what? Anyone selling on Ebay not aware of sniping is a fool. I defy you to find even one big seller not aware of this concept. And, anyone who "leaves" Ebay because of sniping is an even bigger fool. New sellers crop up each and every day, with no end in sight.
In any auction, doesn't the most feverish bidding always take place at the very end? I still fail to see what is wrong with this, and please...snipe away at my listings all you want!
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
<< <i> In my experience, anti-sniping people tend to be people who are either to cheap to pay $5/month for justsnipe.com or are people who are ticked that their unsophisticated bidding gets topped at the end. >>
I have always admitted to sniping. I always will. I am just trying to look at this from another angle. Anyway, I would love to hear the answer from all of you that Aknot asked in an earlier thread. What if Ebay did not aloow this method of bidding? No crappy answers - would you still do it and break the rules, or would you stay away from Ebay? There isn't an auction site anywhere this big, so don't act like you would just walk away. 8 out of 10 here would still snipe.
By the way Vargha, from my experience, anyone that has the ridiculous amount of posts that you have in a just about a 3 year span, obviously spends way too much time on these boards. Unbelievable! You are the King of No Life in my book.
Yeah whatever...
TheRoach
<< <i>1) It saves me time >>
<< <i>2) It saves me money >>
Aknot...I have no idea what era you are buying/selling your cards at...in the 58-59-60 era...I do not see what you would call "savings" by sniping...of course I'm only speaking of graded cards...on the contrary...I have seen vintage cards sell for more than SMR (depending on which card it is)...I have seen absolutely no one "steal" a card because of sniping...there are many, mnay people using eBay that are sniping...whether it is 3rd party or themselves doing it...
<< <i>1) It is a computer/server that does the bidding to get in the bid at the "last possible" moment. Having a friend bid and you bidding at the last possible moment is not the same thing. >>
It might not be the same thing...but in the end it is...the auction does not know any difference...it's a last minute bid...done by computer or a friend...there is no difference to the bottomline...
<< <i>2) You (as a seller, buyer and observer) see no "movement" or desire for said item until the last minutes/seconds. It is hard to tell if someone stumbled upon the product and said "ooo got to have it" or it was a snipe program with all that activity. This is a "tool" to tell you how well/much antother product of the same ilk may fair in the future whether you are the seller or buyer >>
If you want references to how cards sold I suggest you check completed deals...it will help you determine what your product "might" do in the future...but that is no guarantee..
<< <i>4) No "human" interaction. My view is an auction is "interactive". Meaning you make an offer someone counteroffers, you counteroffer that or maybe walk away for a few hours/days, come back etc. Sniping removes that. >>
Excuse me but how is you being on a computer making a bid on a another computer "human" interaction...there is no human at eBay taking your information down...it's all done on a computer...eBay is friendless...it is cold and uncalculating...there is no interaction...
<< <i>For the record I do not believe I have ever lost a auction to a snipe and that is the furthest reason I would have this stance. >>
I have...and I snipe all the time...I still do not win every transaction...in fact I've lost a few...because I was out bid...also the snipe did not work (it's not fool-proof)...
I think it's great that you have an opinion...and I do feel that you think sniping is wrong...but the reasons that you are listing do not really hold up...I think there is some other reason...what it is I do not know...
I've done it both ways...and can see no advantage either way...the item is going to sell for whatever it sells for using either system...snipes or not...3rd person or computer...again I do not have any facts on modern or early stuff...I'm viewing it strictly in vintage materials...
I've also sold on eBay and have been sniped (or it appears that way)...and again see no advantage or short-comings...a bid is a bid is a bid...wherever or whenever it comes...
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets
<< <i>So roach, what you are saying is you have a problem with someone sniping, which is legal within eBay's rules, but don't have a problem with asking a seller to end an auction early, which is against eBay's rules and could get both ID's banned. And this is somehow going to make eBay more $? >>
Schrst,
Please read my response again before you go quoting me. I am a sniper. I admit that in the response that you quoted. Read the last paragraph in that response please. However, I do feel like sniping is not doing so much for Ebay either when you compare it to me asking someone to end the auction early. Ending an auction early is more severe, sure. But both ways cost Ebay money when it all comes down to it.
I'll say it again. I could care less how much money Ebay makes. I don't care if I unintentionally dodge an Ebay fee when I sell a card I have listed to someone who makes me an offer to end the auction early. Why does anyone else care if I do either? My stance in this thread is to the people who claim that sniping isn't hurting Ebay in some ways, but what I do is AN ACT OF THE DEVIL.
I will continue to say that a ballpark figure as of today for success in asking bidders to end their auction early is like 95% to date. It is ridiculous how many people will do it for the right price. I have tremendous success getting the cards I want by paying for them like I am supposed to, practically every seller I make an offer to is willing to end the auction, but I am supposed to listen, let alone care what a bunch of people on a PSA Forum have to say about it? I could care less. Maybe some of you people in these forums make decisions in life based on what others in this forum say, but I'm a grown man who don't need assistance anymore. Actually not for the last 15 years or so.
I value alot of the opinions that I ask for, but none of them will directly have an effect on the way I do things in life. I hope nobody is upset about that, but I am sure there is some other people in this forum that are looking for a father figure or guidance. Not me.
TheRoach
It's good to be the king.
> Yeah, I saw the words "Please look for a fix in the upcoming future,"
> but it registered as "We will be buying www.esnipe.com in the very
> near future."
Good one!!
TheRoach asked:
> What I don't get is, what is the difference between putting in your
> max bid seconds before the auction is over, or 3 days before it is
> over?
The difference is that when I put a bid in on a card three days before
it ends, 9 times out of 10 I end up getting outbid. Sniping (which
I do manually, and not with a service, btw) helps me in two ways.
It helps me win more cards (providing I do my homework and learn how
high to bid), and it saves me money by preventing me from getting into
an emotional bidding war that I might later regret. Sniping also helps
to prevent unscrupulous sellers from shill bidding up the sell price.
> But if you wait until the final seconds, maybe you can deprive all of
> those people who would have outbid you, of a fair chance to do so now.
> Just maybe they don't have snipe programs?
So if I place the max bid that I can afford days before the auction ends,
and somebody outbids me hours before the auction ends, aren't they also
"depriving" me of the card? If I can't afford to bid higher, what's so
fair about that? That's life. That's the hobby of card collecting.
These little pieces of cardboard can be very desirable, so you're going
to run into competition. That competition is part of what makes our
cards hold value. So what if they don't have snipe programs? They can
do it manually like I do. Sniping, like price guides, messageboards,
past auctions, etc., is a tool for winning cards in ebay auctions. If
another collector fails to use these tools, that doesn't make it any more
or less "fair".
> But let's not sit here and say that sniping is definitely not depriving
> other Ebayers a shot at the card, or Ebay itself some extra $$$. That
> would be ridiculous. If everyone had to put their max bid in and win
> an auction thatway instead of trying to guess what the minimum bid they
> needed to make was in the final few seconds to beat out the current
> high bidder, Ebay would make more $$$ for sure.
Sniping is definitely not depriving other ebayers a shot at the card.
They, like me, have access to when the auction is ending, and they can
also bid high within the last few seconds. They have the ability to
look at price guides and past auctions. I am trying to see your point
of view, but your logic seems to be flawed.
It is also not true that Ebay would make more money if they found a way
to get rid of sniping. Most of the insane prices you see paid for cards
occurs when 2 or 3 big money snipers go head to head. Another reason
why sniping is not depriving other ebayers (at least not any more than
if you were simply outbid) is because even if you miss out on a card,
chances are that it will show up again on ebay in the future.
> Most people are not putting their max bid, they are just trying to out
> bid the current high bidder by the least amount possible. in 99% of the
> sniping cases, if the sniper had one more chance to get in another bid
> because his original snipe amount was not enough, they would. So,
> having said that, most snipers aren't putting in their max bids either.
> Just my opinion on this matter.
I think that the exact opposite is happening. Most snipers are putting
their max bids in, and most snipers bid to win the card. I agree with
your statement that given another chance, a sniper would still bid high-
er at that moment. But is that the sane thing to do? That's when
emotion takes over, and let's face it, nobody likes that losing feeling.
Sniping helps me stay within my collecting budget, and looking back I
have no regrets about the cards I lost. It's just a hobby to me.
The longer you snipe, the more you realize that it's your last shot at
the card. Many snipers will bid insane amounts to win a card they
really want, and when you get two bidders that are sniping on a
desirable card, that's when you see insane prices. Ebay makes out quite
well on these deals, and I think that's why they won't be doing away with
sniping anytime in the near future.
Snipe on!
Let's get back to other fun issues that aren't so debateable. Cheers!
TheRoach
What Ebay has is a "sealed envelope" bid system, except they open up the envelopes and share them with the world before the time is up.
The person that wins the auction is the one who bids the highest during a window of time. It makes no difference whether you bid at the beginning or with 1 second to go. Highest bidder wins. So if you are bidding in a system where the winner is declared from the highest bidder, why in the world would you bid before the last second, exposing your hand to shill bidders, unless you weren't going to be around at the end, and didn't have access to a sniping service.
And you had better believe that there are a lot of people who love to bid up others they know usually bid high.
I always snipe my highest bid, and if someone outbids me, then so be it.
As far as what Ebay said about an upcoming future fix----I have to believe that that is nothing more than customer service BS. The only possible fix would be to turn the sales into real auctions that allowed bidding to continue until all are in.
Everyone has a right to their opinions...but now people are complaining about sniping! Whats next...people upset at having to bid online to get cards they want. They would rather send "want lists" by snail mail to other dealers and collectors and hope they get a response?
Its improved technology folks.....nothing more, nothing less.
<< <i>Its improved technology folks.....nothing more, nothing less. >>
John
I'm a modern/vintage collector with a tendency toward the classic conservative approach but on this one I think you are correct - like it or not - it is nothing more than an efficient absentee bidding mechanism. It's here and approved or disapproved by ebay, it will continue to be used.
Mike
edit to add: Roach, if you are on the planet - I think you would agree with this?
2. If Ebay truly felt this feature drove up final hammer prices, they would have implemented it a long time ago.
3. If Ebay introduces an "auto-extend" auction service, expect to pay for it as a seller. That way like most things with ebay, they get paid up front.
4. Even if an "auto-extend" option is created, the sniper programs will adjust. It really would not be that hard to program additional auction checks.
5. There is nothing ethically wrong with sniping.