To Joe Orlando

carewfan4life

It has come to my attention that SMR is now up for sale by COLLECTORS UNIVERSE. This might explain some of the problems people are having, like not getting their issues. I stopped my service with them last June due to this. Sad part is i live less than 30 minutes from them(91702), and less than 20 minutes from where they are shipped to PSA, and i still couldn't get it sent to me on time. SUPERIOR has already been sold, so what's next? If any of you read the stock market reports, take a look at the "management" rating that COLLECTORS UNIVERSE is given. Might explain why they loss so much money last year, and it definitely explains the hike in grading fees. You have to recover the loss money somehow, so just pass it on to your customers. PSA is almost at the point of pricing itself right out of business. Since i own a business, hopefully i already know this. Until PSA starts to manage itself better, it will surely decline. Idea's have been brought to this board in regards to CUSTOMER SERVICE, it has come to the point that only ACTION will speak louder than just JOE (I will take anyone's call) ORLANDO. Your board has been speaking to you for a long time, and by the threads posted it has all gone by the wayside. My question to you JOE is, why should i invest my hard earned money in PSA STOCK? Right now it looks like a bad investment!!

jrinck

Actually, the stock is for Collector's Universe (CLCT), the parent company of PSA.

As for the future of PSA, that's up to them. Pan-Am was once considered one of the elite airlines, and they're now gone. Enron used to be respected until they imploded. Anything can happen in the business world. Enjoy it while it lasts is about all of us on the outside can do.

WinPitcher

seems they may have already begun imploding half of the company has been sold recently, cards are leaving the grading room with crap inside the holders, what is next? I have been in this hobby a long time and thought the idea of encapsulating was a great one especially for posterity. Authentication was another important factor in my belief that this was good for the hobby, grading was important as it offered you peace of mind and value at resale/trade time. Anyway it may be time for many of us to re examine what we want and expect from a company that provides us an important service. my 2 cents

scottsusor

<< <i>What is next? >>


Probably a story about how PSA is keeping real 9's and 10's that come in, substituting a similar 8 card, slabbing it, and sending it back out to the unsuspecting customer. Just kidding. They would never do that.

Scott

wolfbear

I, for one, will be glad when these whining wimps,
finally cross their cards over to a company, that will breast feed them,

for the remainder of their collecting careers ...

RobBobGolf

Well said WolfBear! Well said.

The same scenerio exsists in radio, if you don't like the station, turn the tuner.

These people are not captive. They are free to go where they please, and please go.

RobBob

RedRomad275

I would like to chime in with my 2 cents. I don't think it's whining at all. I am not a big time submitter or buy and sell thousands of dollars of cards. I am a small submitter. Probably about 100-150 cards a year. I use PSA because of their reputation and to increase the value of my collection. I can relate to several of the customer service problems that I read on these boards. I have had them as well. Bottom line on this is that there is an issue with customer service and it needs to be addressed. I could take the money I spend submitting cards and further my collection but I won't use another grading company. Voicing problems to PSA improves PSA (in theory). I could say the same to you in regards to your response to this thread. You don't like a thread, don't read it.

zsz70

Most of us have played sports in our lives.
Most of us watch sports.

If Derek Jeter had a problem with Joe Torre, would it
be wise for him to go to the press and blabber all his
concerns ?

Or would it be better for him to sit down with JOE
and talk things over.

If you have a problem with the manager, have
the fortitude to speak to him personally. You'd get
a lot more respect from your teammates if you did this.

Sounding off to the press and others who can't change
the problem only stirs up unecessary dissention.

marc

aconte

"I, for one, will be glad when these whining wimps,
finally cross their cards over to a company, that will breast feed them,"

That's a great response. Almost as good as koby's Microsoft comparison.

Even though I'm not one of them wolfbear, most collectors here are quite loyal to Psa. They
just want what every collector wants - a quality service from start to finish. You should take
a bow at the next luncheon since you are Psa's dream customer.

aconte

Ruthfan

No, Wolfy I don't think it's whining. I think it's people just trying to demand that PSA work better to respond to customers problems. I don't care how big a company they are or how many cards they grade because it doesn't matter when you ignore your customers. Any company that continues to treat the customers in this way will pay for it in the end. Those concerns need to be addressed NOW, not down the road. If you didn't have such an infatuation with Joe and took your head from out of his rear you might be able to comprehend what I am talking about. Say what you want, think how you want, but PSA is not as comfortable in the marketplace as they once were. You have many grading choices now and GAI is gaining popularity in the marketplace by the day. People have legitimate concerns with what is happening at PSA and Collectors Universe. It's a trickle down effect when you have complaints like they have had in the last couple of months from many of their customers. I, as well as many others which probably includes you, have a vested interest in the stability of PSA. What would happen to the value of the cards in PSA slabs if their company is to continue to endure the problems that they are currently having? I certainly don't want to see the value of my PSA slabbed cards fall, but unless PSA gets their act together I don't see them doing anything but that. I for one think that their grading has become so eratic that I will not purchase a high $ PSA slabbed card without seeing it in person or at least seeing a good clear scan of the card to really see the cards condition. It's people like you that have the PSA is holier than thou attitude that think they could never fall from grace. It's happened to companies before, so why could it not happen to PSA?

Basilone

Did Vargha's post get deleted?

34GoudeyCollector

It definitely appears that way to me

Ruthfan

Ah oh! Better not state anything that PSA may take as derogitive no matter how truthful it may be. What a joke.

bxb

Now there's food for thought. Imagine if PSA goes broke, and all your PSA graded cards drop 50% in value.

Live long and prosper.

murcerfan

all your PSA graded cards drop 50% in value.

anything with a low pop would actually go up.
all of a sudden there won't be any new 8's on the horizon to complete those precious sets.
after a few years the value, especially big dollar 9's and 10's, will drop, but not 50% I wouldn't think.
..........unless the actual WIWAG details or other scandal comes into play.

curmudgeon

Murcerfan--you nailed it.

CON40

If PSA goes down (I really don't see that happening), the question will be how do we determine the changes in pricing going forward? The SMR and Pop Report are very good sign posts in pointing us in the right direction for cards' increase or decrease in value. If the SMR, Pop Report, and this forum no longer exist, we'll all be little islands with very loose networking to establish changes in value. Because the proverbial "head" would be cut off the body, if PSA goes boom, my guess is the entire graded card fad goes boom within a year too.

This of course is all conjencture as I believe the demise of PSA is a greatly over-exaggerated.

dbj77

I would gladly cross over my collection to a different company, but I'm so broke now I can't even finish the sets I've started let alone pay crossover fees.

murcerfan

my guess is the entire graded card fad goes boom within a year

have you bought raw cards on e-bay lately?

EOMINT

If PSA goes down you can say goodbye to graded cards forever, no matter what the company...after the SBC scandal several years ago it took a while to rebuild confidence in the notion of graded cards. Crossing over your cards to another company wont make any difference...the net result would be a general erosion of demand for grading period. Personally I feel PSA is by far the most solid of the bunch...is it perfect, heck no, but nothing is. I've found all of Joe's posts on these boards to be very forthright, and he refuses to get involved in the back and forth venom spewing that some here try to lure him into.

I work in the investment business...there are a few things I've noticed from my experiences that I think relate here. Every time I've seen a company's stock get crushed and the company come out and issue a press release blaming short sellers or trying to defend itself, it has been an ominous sign...both Conseco and Fleming did this and both went bankrupt. Defensiveness usually means a company has something to hide...my point is I've never seen Joe be defensive in his posts, on the contrary he addresses issues head on though he clearly acknowledges PSA makes mistakes. Now some of you will say he erases certain posts etc. etc....in my view he is merely drawing a prudent line as this is a private message board sponsored by his company, so unconstructive bashing isnt welcome...constructive criticism, however, is usually well-received.

Ask yourself this, why are the bashers out there doing what they are doing? Why cant they let the quality of their preferred grading service speak for itself? The answer is simple, PSA has won the war, and they're pissed about it. They are pissed b/c they have cards encapsulated in holders that will only command a fraction of what it would if it was slabbed in a PSA holder.

If you think people's faith in PSA is declining, all u need to do is check the prices realized in the Superior Auction...pretty healthy I would say.

EO

curmudgeon

EO

I know of no other way to put it than---- you are delerious.

<Ask yourself this, why are the bashers out there doing what they are doing? Why cant they let the quality of their preferred grading service speak for itself? The answer is simple, PSA has won the war, and they're pissed about it.>

Once again, it's the us against them mentality--you're either for us or against us. What a remarkably myopic view of the issue you have.

<If PSA goes down you can say goodbye to graded cards forever, no matter what the company>

This is the chicken little theory, mixed with the we don't know how we good we have it theory. Speaking in such absolutes and with such homage to the current system is ridiculous, and borderline arrogant to the extent you apparently consider yourself more knowledgeable about this hobby than those who would dare to "rock the boat".

<I've found all of Joe's posts on these boards to be very forthright>

Sorry, that one's a jawdropper. Which one has he been more forthright about, the WIWAG issue or the Pete Rose rookie thread. I have trouble remembering, and since at least the latter issue was pulled three times (so far), I can't refer to it.

1420sports

If you think people's faith in PSA is declining, all u need to do is check the prices realized in the Superior Auction...pretty healthy I would say.

True. The prices realized in the Superior Auction were strong. Thing is, I see more and more GAI cards on the market. At every show I attend there are more and more. I see myself wanting to buy one, but alot of the enjoyment I get from collecting baseball cards is due to registering them. I collect PSA cards and PSA cards only. Take away the PSA registry, and I could not honestly affirm I would make the same statement. PSA has the obvious market share but if the Global Interactive registry ever comes to fruition, I could see myself wanting to attempt crossing my Mantle PSA 5 to a GAI 5.5 .... or my Rose PSA 8 to an 8.5. If I collector like myself is wondering about such a registry, where all three companies can live as one, than I am sure others are as well.

Getting rid of board members (at least several of them) was not a wise move in many of our opinions. I know there has been more than enough reasons to get rid of the troublemakers. There has also been more than enough unanswered questions.

The customer service/backlog issue is a sign that collectors are still submitting to PSA in record numbers. PSA dealers and those who make their living I am sure are relieved. However, negative posts do not help, as several "newbies" may be turned off to having their cards graded. We all were newbies once. How many of us would still be here or collecting PSA cards if we entered these recent waters? Many future customers may have been lost forever within these recent posts. What PSA dealer wants to think about that?

PSA is still a strong company and my company. I am sure that someone will turn things around soon.



and

EOMINT

Curmudgeon,

I am undoubtedly arrogant, there's no question about that...thanks for noticing. All I'm saying is that people's faith in any grading system is a fragile thing which, once abused, will not be easily restored. PSA has become a de facto standard like FedEx...people say they get packages FedExed and they say they get their cards PSA'd. The strength of the brand is there, and the community here on the boards is strong...all I have to do is go back to the outpouring of support for Carlos a year or so ago to document that.

The market votes with its wallet...if GAI cards are deemed to be the same quality as PSA, then they will sell on par, I have no problem with that. But several others have tried and failed, as is evidenced by the discounts the cards sell at.

EO

pc

nolemmings.(curmudgeon)
did you stop selectively paying for winning bids.
such a smart boy but no integrity.2 year
member of the pc32 blocked bidders list.

1967topps

And while the status of PSA seems up for debate, and the source of
SMR values is unknown, though this seems true: "all commons in the same series
from the same year are $SMR worth the same amount regardless of population"

All the names i recognize on this forum are people I know from ebay, yet it is Beckett not PSA
making this announcement that arrived in my mailbox today:

"Beckett Launches Value Guide With eBay
Beckett is pleased to announce the launch of the Beckett.com Sports Card Value Guide - a landmark resource for sports card buyers and sellers. The Value Guide uses pricing data from eBay, the World's Online Marketplace®, marking the first time that raw historical data about sports card transactions on eBay have been used to create such a tool."

RonD

Amazing. The majority of cards sold on ebay are raw but of the graded market, PSA has the edge by a longshot. It is too bad that PSA did not get the jump on that opportunity. I have always used ebay as a price guide. It is far more valuable than any price guide in print mainly due to its timeliness and sample size.

Advantage Beckett on this one. As it is they are THE marketing machine in the hobby.

Ron

Buckwheat

pc

Is curmudgeon really nolemmings???? I had no idea about that.

Nuyauwka

I think Beckett being tied in with Ebay card prices is alot better then PSA working with Ebay on the guide.I think a party totally seperate from PSA will give the values of the PSA cards a stronger substance since they are not invovled in deeming the prices for their own cards as with the SMR . And Beckett has been doing price guides forever, in the novice card collectors mind, Beckett is the trusted price guide. I just started going back to shows the last couple of months for the first time in over 15 years, I did not think anyone used Beckett since all I have really messed with was graded for a longtime, everytime I went to a dealer to get a price on a card, they pulled out a beckett. I think a guide by them for Ebay will bring stronger prices to PSA cards in the longrun. There are so many issues in the SMR where they do not even have a price for a common card of a particular set, and I don't mean modern cards, these are sets in the early 70's.

qualitycards

NUYAUWKA - I agree!
I don't think PSA droped the ball on this. Just that Beckett a price guide dominated business for 20 years saw a need to further their business w/ more data for us card junkies. I;m looking foward to the information that we will be published...jay

Fuzz

Now I'm late to the party on this topic to say the least but I did have a comment.
Beckett is the most trusted name in price guides === no argument.
But doesn't Beckett have a competitive grading company ?? How would that make him less in conflict than PSA in producing a guide of PSA cards? To me it only seems the other side of the coin, certainly not independent. I will reserve judgement until the end of the project.
Fuzz

Basilone

I have tested out Beckett's new system and it is pretty good....the only problem is that it goes back till Oct 2003 and pretty much only the stars have data vintage wise. For example, as of yesterday there was not any data on Bob Friend. I'm not sure if they are in the process of uploading data...or if they are just going to start the transaction history on a go forward basis.