I'm Pulling Out of the Franklin FBL Registry

Typetone

I'm so impressed with the non-FBL bonus Franklin Regsitry that I am pulling out of the artificially bonused FBL registry. Also I now recognize only non-bonus sets as the best Franklin sets.

Greg

bushmaster8

Glad you have seen the light!

Better make sure you delete the set from the FBL registry. I did not and BJ had a cow!

PBRat

Hurry. We have to try and get the number of sets to below 10000.

BJ

Maybe I had a cow about another issue... but not this! You can certainly run two Franklin sets if you wish... one FBL, one not FBL.

bushmaster8

hey greg,
your 53-S has better looking bell lines than some I have seen that got the designation!

MadMonk

<< <i>Maybe I had a cow about another issue... but not this! You can certainly run two Franklin sets if you wish... one FBL, one not FBL. >>



BJ, Don't listen to that man behind the curtain.

DennisH

I thought BJ had armadillos?

Typetone

I've just stopped believing that a Franklin graded 65FBL is better than a Franklin graded plain 65. They both have the same numeric grade, so in the eyes of the PCGS grader they should be comparable coins. Strike is a component of grade. Since the FBL has a better strike in the lower bell lines, the other should have compensating features elsewhere. Which features are preferred is of course personal. While I like a nice strike, I would sacrifice a little strike (which is hard to see anyway) for better eye appeal or luster. All in all, I absolutely do not think the FBL designation should be worth a registry bonus. The non-FBL set seems to best reflect the coin quality differences in my opinion.

In terms of pricing, will this mean non-FBL prices will increase? Maybe a little, but mostly I think FBL prices will drop. Some of the smart guys have already been selling their FBL pieces at recent prices. FBL prices have come off a lot since the peak about 5 years ago. They can come off more. I think the best buys are now highly eye appealing non-FBL pieces. You can do a great looking set for a small amount of money.

What do you guys think about dropping your FBL registry entries?

Greg

wondercoin

"What do you guys think about dropping your FBL registry entries?"

Greg: IT AIN'T HAPPENING!!

IMHO, you have had this epiphany, because you simply have justified in your mind why you shouldn't step up, pay for, and buy the great FBL coins. That decision has now turned into a crusade to show that your decision is justified. You know, as well as I do, that if your monster 53(s) in MS66 HAD STRONG FBL as well, you would "be in heaven"! AND WHAT AN INCREDIBLE COIN THAT WOULD BE!!! Hey, I love the non-FBL Franklins as well (heck I have the #1 registered set right now), but, I love the FBL coins even more - a lot more. It's all about the money IMHO - if you don't want to spend it on the very best Frankins, the non-FBL collection offers a great deal (trust me, I know and justify it as well). If you have the money to dedicate to this series, these Franklins, WITH MONSTER COLOR & FBL OR BLAST WHITE RARITIES WITH FBL are "what's it all about" IMHO.

LET ME BE CLEAR ON ONE POINT - MY COMMENTS PERTAIN TO "ALL THERE" "MONSTER" FRANKLINS with strong FBL as well. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT LOW END "PLASTIC PURCHASES" here.

I would not have written this to most on the boards, but, I know you "dish it out" Greg and can take it just as well

Wondercoin

flykite

Strike is a component of grade, and is thus rewarded with FBL, FB. FS designations. I have owned many
"eye-appeal" Franklins, but prefer strike. I've said this before, I STILL prefer that there not be a non-FBL
seperation in the Registry. I guess non-FS and FB will follow. To each his (or her) own!

FYI:

Comparitvely speaking, FBL coins are dirt cheap! Just look at the total POP. of those graded, and they pale
when compared to the glut of Morgans and Walkers that are out there. If Franklins' collector base were ever
to expand to the likes of those, and considering that there are verrry few coins graded above '66, the price
potential could be awesome.

Ed

Typetone

Mitch and Flykite:

If you notice, only two of my registered Franklins are non-FBL. So, I am not trying to justify my decision to buy non-FBLs, as I haven't made that decision yet. Yes, if my 53S were FBL, I would be in heaven. But that is only because I would be able to sell it at a ridiculous price. And, I would sell it in that case. About three years ago, I sold my high end FBL set (which I believe would still make the top 5 today). I sold it because I believed FBL prices would drop. So far I have been correct. If I would have been smarter, I would have sold my proofs as well. I kept a second set of mostly 64 and 65 FBLs. I would consider upgrading those. The choice would be between buying great 66 non-FBLs now, or waiting and buying 66FBLs later.

However, Mitch, I am interested in your opinion of my analysis that on average, a regular 65 is generally comparable in quality to a 65FBL. Yes, the FBL might have a better strike, but the regular 65 should have other compensating features. If not, they shouldn't be the same grade. Please don't just talk about the highest end piece, but the average pieces (even if you wouldn't buy them).

Greg

bushmaster8

<< <i> I think the best buys are now highly eye appealing non-FBL pieces. Greg >>



Shushhhh!

wondercoin

"However, Mitch, I am interested in your opinion of my analysis that on average, a regular 65 is generally comparable in quality to a 65FBL."

Greg: I believe I have no problem with that assessment, provided "quality", of course, excludes the very designation itself. I trust you feel the same way about Jeff nickels, Merc Dimes, Roosies, etc. as well?

Wondercoin

Typetone

Mitch:

I guess I am saying that on average a regular 65 should be better than the FBL on other grading qualities (luster, eye appeal, marks). Since they are both 65s, and since the FBL presumably has the better strike, then it stands to reason that the non-FBLs would be superior on some non-strike features. The features preferred are then a question of taste.

I will defer expressing an opinion on Mercs, Roosies, SLQs, or Jeffs, as I am not a serious collector of those series. But, I would suppose that the same grading theory ought to apply.

In the case of proof CAMs and DCAMs, I see a difference. In putting a numeric grade on a proof, the degree of contrast is presumable not a factor. So, there is no reason to suppose that a regular PR67 has better compensating features than a PR67CAM. The CAM or DCAM designation is a real add-on. The same logic should also apply to BN, RB, RD designations.

Agree or disagree?

Greg

wondercoin

"Agree or disagree?"

Greg: I guess I would have to disagree applying your analysis on the Franklins.

Depth of cameo goes to eye appeal (right?), just as 99% near miss FBL goes into a factor of grade under your analysis - right? Hence, a 99% just miss 68DCAM Franklin might get a 69CAM grade - agreed?

Wondercoin

Typetone

Mitch:

I see your point on CAMs. It would seem as if cameos are generally preferred to non cameos for 1950s proofs. And, I have always argued against excessive registry point awards for DCAMs.

On your CS Franklin example. True an MS65 99% FBL probably is comparable on other grading factors to a full 65FBL. But if it really is 99% why does it deserve two full grade points below a 65FBL. The 99% full MS66 gets one full grade point less than a 65 FBL. Why is that reasonable? It would seem that a 1/2 point bonus for FBLs is more than enough.

In the more common case where the MS65 is say 70% full, it stands to reason that it would have compensating factors to get the same numeric as the 65FBL.

Greg

LucyBop

I love em Both!

FBL and non-FBL....

Toned and Brilliant....

I love it all!

MadMonk

As a long time Franklin COLLECTOR, I have always purchased coins that turn me on. From an investment stand point, FBL might turn into a craze, and might offer some decent reward. I don't know that it will happen in my lifetime though. You dealers who argue FBL is great have your words fall on deaf ears in my case. I've been in this hobby too long, and have literally owned and handled thousands of Franklins. I've been on both sides of the table, so you can't persuade me of the holy merits of FBL when your selling them. I don't know how many times I've had to pull a loupe out to "see" FBL's on a designated coin. That right there makes most of it no brainer. The idea of pop reports give me a shiver as well. There are literally millions of un-certified Franklins in the market. As popularity increases, so will the pops. So be wise with your money. Too many collectors are insecure with thier grading skills, and don't want to risk the money. So a lot of the money being made in Franklins is by competent graders, and risk takers.
If you want to invest in coins, there are much better coins to put your money into. Yes, you might see some healthy returns, but it is a higher risk than many other conventional forms of investment.
If you are a true collector, let's say with a balanced attitude about investing, collecting, my very educated opinion is that your money is best spent on above average eye appeal pieces.
Registries should reflect how a coin is collected. Every real expert in Franklins that I've ever known, and I myself have been called that, say that FBL is over-rated from a collectors standpoint.

LucyBop

<< <i>Every real expert in Franklins that I've ever known, and I myself have been called that, say that FBL is over-rated from a collectors standpoint.

>>



I'm not saying i'm a expert, but I do have some expertise in this area..

This is merely your opinion and the opinion of your 'expert' collecting friends.....

And I disagree, FBL is not over-rated from a collectors stand point....

Maybe, with some luck, one day, I'll advance to your level of expertise....

In the meantime, many on these boards including some of the big name dealers, come to me for my asessments on Franklins....
send me coins for pre-screen, ask my opinion on current market conditions and prices.....

A set os ms64fbl's short of the 53s is lovely and do-able, and hardly over-rated.....

MadMonk

Lucy, I'm sorry if I wasnt clear. I do want to emphasize that my comment was meant from an investment perspective, and to de-snoot some of the "Non FBL is inferior mojo's". As a collection attribute, I have no problem with the FBL...we should collect whatever rocks our socks. My problem is with some sellers claiming that if you buy 65 FBL's now, your going to get rich. That is my big concern with the FBL. Also those that seem to be upset with the Non-FBL registry. Also that a collector shouldnt feel inferior if he can't afford a 1962 ms-65fbl. I also tried to talk about eye appeal. I've seen too many high grade coins that are just plain ugly. The experts I spoke of were specialist dealers, and hard core collectors, and yes, it is solely opinions.
In my 25 years of collecting the series, eye appeal has always been the major attibute that swooshed a coin from my hands. I also totally agree that a set in MS-64 FBL is a great way to collect franklins. The prices are more down to earth, and you have a Franklin that is recognized as a prime example of the art. But, to me, cause I'm an old fart, I go by Ehrmantraut. NGC and PCGS are so diverse in thier FBL opinions, that also concerns me.
You stated that you love them all. You love the series as I do. Your one of the great ones! (my opinion of course!)