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Some neat stuff at the Coin Shop this afternoon and some strange rumors at a Club Meeting this eveni

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
I went into the local shop this morning to do some planning for a show three of us will be presenting in November. Along with the discussion was the flow of traffic in/out of the shop, and Lincoln Cents commanded the spotlight along with the crazy price of silver.

One older gentleman came in to sell a few items and he had a nice-evenly-toned-raw-brown 1955 DDO in a solid XF. These coins always amaze me, especially when they're red and no glass is needed to see the doubling. This one was a solid collector coin that my buddy snatched up and probably sold before the day was over. He also had three early ANACS photo-certificates of tough Lincoln Cents----a cleaned 1983 DDR and VF 1914-D and 1909-S/horizontal S, the first I've seen.

While we were having coffee someone called to ask if he had any 10 oz. silver bars and they showed up about an hour later to gladly pay the almost $8/oz. price for two of them!!!! Evidentally they haven't heard of the logic that says to buy low and sell high. I'm a bit stunned that silver is up to $7.698 at close, which brings us to the Club Meeting and the rumor mill..........

The guys seemed to be buzzing a bit this evening about that high close. The old boy I drive to this meeting is gonna ride in with me on Thursday to unload a few hundred more face. He does it every time silver closes high. I wonder where in the heck he has it all stashed at!!! While we were talking about where the price might go, somebody remarked that this is all happening without the help of the Hunt Brothers...............and that's when someone else said that they heard Bill Gates was buying silver at a breakneck pace. I gravely doubt that, he's too smart for that trap, but hey, stranger things have happened.

Another interesting piece of "fact or fiction" entails the tampering of slabbed coins. Evidentally one of the local dealers at the meeting said he'd had some other dealers tell him that the "Coin Doctors" are now injecting iodine through the sealed slab wall to cause toning. Now, that certainly sounds like high fiction to me, but again......................has anyone else heard any of these kinds of "Numismatic Urban Legends" before?? You know what an Urban Legend is, right?

WOWZER!!!!!! After all that, I needed the sanity of the U.S. Forum to chill me out!!image

Al H.image

Comments

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bill Gates has taken a position in silver though I hadn't heard he's still buying it.

    Tempus fugit.
  • BladeBlade Posts: 1,744
    I have heard that the paper in the slabs reacts to chemicals and gasses. Injecting something into the coin would cause the insert to change color. Can anyone verify?

    Putting liquid iodine into a coin slab would be one messy situation. Hard to believe this would work.
    Tom

    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    Type collector since 1981
    Current focus 1855 date type set
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bill needs the money to pay off the 600+ million dollar fine the EU is imposing on him for being a slime. (end of MS rant)
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭
    Did the US Strategic Reserve of silver run out? I remember stories of this about a year ago. Story went that the US Mint would need to start buying silver on the open market vs. paying lowball prices for metal from the strategic reserve. If all our silver eagles, commems, and silver proofs are coming from the market, that is clearly a big plus in demand. I don't know the markets well enough to know if that is a .05% boost in demand, or a 5% boost.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • itsnotjustme: it ran out several years ago and the mint began buying silver on the open market. I always thought it was weird; when our economy entered a recession, nothing happened. When the Mint began buying on the open market, nothing happened. Now all of the sudden silver goes up. I'll never understand the market dynamics!

    BTW, I wouldn't make TOO big of a deal about Bill Gates buying silver. Many financial advisors recommend 5-10% of your assets go to silver/gold. What is (percentage-wise) a small hedge to Bill Gates is to us a serious position. When you hear of someone buying millions of ounces of silver, ask yourself first what percentage of their total wealth that is, then you can determine just how interested they really are in the market.
    I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The experts estimate some twenty five billion ounces of silver exist above ground.

    I've always suspected this number is significantly too high because it is so close to
    total world mine production throughout history and doesn't seem to take into account
    large amounts lost to photography and scrapped electrical equipment. Silver foil was
    available at the supermarket when I was a child and it seems improbable that much of
    this survived. Many of the old silver coin series lost up to 3% of their weight through
    circulation, and attrition due to loss or destruction averages nearly 1% annually over
    the very long term.

    Much of this silver is locked up in products, tools and collectibles so is not available ex-
    cept at far higher prices. Most silver comes as a by product of copper mining now days.
    Lesser amounts are a by product of gold mining and direct silver mining.
    Tempus fugit.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On Silver: Someone with enough money could influence the market if they bought large numbers of silver contracts and then insisted on actual delivery of the metal. The little guy should be very wary as he will be the last to know when the market turns. Buying silver in small quantities (such as silver rounds from your local dealer) is dangerous because the margin on small purchases is high.

    On Coin Doctors: Last week it was reported to me that PhD chemist coin doctors, with deep pockets, are buying heavily. The source of this info was a collector friend who heard it from a well known and well respected specialist dealer.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • 291fifth - your first paragraph sounds the the Hunt brothers' strategy! Danger Will Robinson!!!.... when trying to "corner" any market. Demanding delivery on a commodities contract is fine, but to affect the market in a big way, you have to be long these contracts until they expire. This is tough to do when the market isn't rising. Sure, a short squeeze can happen, but the longs must have huge b*lls to ride it out to expiration. The leverage is great when it's in your favor, and it'll kill when when the market starts to move agin you!

    Mike
    Coppernicus

    Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>291fifth - your first paragraph sounds the the Hunt brothers' strategy! Danger Will Robinson!!!.... when trying to "corner" any market. Demanding delivery on a commodities contract is fine, but to affect the market in a big way, you have to be long these contracts until they expire. This is tough to do when the market isn't rising. Sure, a short squeeze can happen, but the longs must have huge b*lls to ride it out to expiration. The leverage is great when it's in your favor, and it'll kill when when the market starts to move agin you!

    Mike >>



    Mike,

    I'm not a metals speculator so I don't claim any special knowledge. In today's business world short term profits seem to be the only thing anyone cares about and I suspect that most of the buying of precious metals is aiming for that goal. Short term thinking usually leads to violent swings in value. It won't surprise me at all to see silver hit $11 or so and then drop like a rock shortly thereafter.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • Agree! I'm not a speculator either but I am very familiar with options and futures markets. An "exponential" price move will eventually collapse, whether at $11/oz or whatever. The "herd mentality" takes over and reason goes out the window. Just don't be the last long (buyer) in the market. OUCH!!!

    Personally, I'll just watch the Lincoln wheat price explosion we're seeing. Since I don't view my coins as an investment and I don't chase ridiculous prices, I can sit back and watch the craziness, and the inevitable "crash and burn."

    Mike
    Coppernicus

    Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
  • Cladking: they say between 500 million and 1 billion of those ounces are actually liquid, the rest, like you said, is tied up.

    The problem with trying to corner the silver market is two-fold: when you own half of the world's available silver, you cannot sell (that is, cash out and take your profits) without forcing the silver market into a total collapse. Imagine what would happen if Bill Gates one day decided to sell every share of his Microsoft stock. It's easy to gain a significant position in the market, but you have to hold the position for a long time, slowly divesting of your silver. Meanwhile it costs you $150 million a year (and that was 25 years ago) to store it all.

    The second part of the problem is the powers-that-be can essentially do whatever they want. They can increase your margin call, as they did with the Hunt brothers, suspend buying contracts, or suspend selling contracts. Or both. Someone else is in TOTAL control of the market.
    I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
  • Silver foil was available at the supermarket . . .

    Cladking - what percentage silver was in the foil? I do remember my Mom telling me that they saved/collected aluminum foil during the war.
  • CoinHuskerCoinHusker Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭
    I dont know about Bill Gates but I've heard (don't remember where) his bridge buddy, Warren Buffet unloaded his silver a year or so ago.
    Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    The stock Market has fallen over 600 points since it peaked at over 10,700 for the first time in 3 years last month.

    I don't mean to sound political here so I'll put this as an open question instead of a comment.

    Do any of you think that confidence [or rather the lack of confidence] in the U.S. economy and U.S. fiscal policy might have something to do with why metals prices are on the rise ?

    Les
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
    Les: yes.image
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
  • Absolutely Les. When people believe the economy is turning down and lose a little faith in the dollar, they tend to hedge.
    I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Silver foil was available at the supermarket . . .

    Cladking - what percentage silver was in the foil? I do remember my Mom telling me that they saved/collected aluminum foil during the war. >>



    The package said it was sterling. (.925). It did look right for silver. It was fairly expensive (~$4.50)
    (~$25 in todays money), but was fairly heavy. At least a few ounces. They probably didn't sell much
    of it but when you add up all the silver that has been lost over the last few thousand years, you'd
    think it would be substantial.
    Tempus fugit.

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