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An ACG mystery?

BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
While reading the recent ACG thread, I got to thinking about the Stuppler/ACG ANA hearings last year. Transcripts available here at K6AZ's web site.

In this section, the following is said:
Number 3:
Alan and Diane Hager dealt with a well known Florida coin dealer Bob Johnson, who sells on the Internet, eBay as "centsles." Bob would come into the shop ASA-Accugrade weekly and submit some 500 to 600 coins for grading. Al Hager would himself grade all Bob's coins. I would put the labeling on the assigned grades to the coins and some of them in Accugrade holders. Alan would drastically downgrade all Bob's coins knowing the certification fees on the 500 to 600 coins graded would be expensive, because Alan would charge the same rate as if it were a higher grade. Alan and Diane were charging $10, $12, $15 a coin based on the grade Alan assigned. Now, this is when the unethical roles of Alan and Diane Hager came into place. Alan would say to Bob, "Now, well, Bob, how are you going to pay for these certification fees?," knowing that he would end up with half of Bob's coins, mostly undergraded pieces and gold coins, as payment for certification fees. After Bob Johnson would leave the office all of these gold coins and undergraded coins would be placed on my desk for relabeling. What graded as an MS-61 would become an MS 64; an MS-62 would become an MS-65, and an MS-63 would become an MS-66. After the coins were reholdered to the newly assigned grade he would then proceed to AH Collectibles room and have Clayton Spencer list some or all of these coins on his eBay site on AH Collectibles."


This is the same Bob Johnson that won round 2(?) of the PCGS grading contest. If he's such a hot shot grader, how is it possible he got duped by Hager with undergraded coins?

Comments

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah! Somebody splain that one.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This would also imply that Mr. Johnson then departed ACG with the remaining coins in ACG holders, all of them undergraded. Thus, his offerings on eBay under the "Centsles" seller name would have been made up largely of undergraded coins in ACG holders, to the tune of hundreds per week. Whatever became of all these undergraded ACGs? I've looked at tons of Centsles' items on eBay over the years and, at least based on the images, I've never run across a single item I thought was undergraded, much less by 2 or 3 points on a MS coin.
    The ACG saga will haunt us for a long time yet...............
    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    MS71 - You missed this part of the story:
    What graded as an MS-61 would become an MS 64; an MS-62 would become an MS-65, and an MS-63 would become an MS-66. After the coins were reholdered to the newly assigned grade he would then proceed to AH Collectibles room and have Clayton Spencer list some or all of these coins on his eBay site on AH Collectibles."

    So, senseless never sold these coins. Hager did, after cracking and overgrading them.

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah - but the story says AH would end up with HALF of Centsles' coins to pay the fees. So...... Centsles would be left with the other half, still in "undergraded" ACG holders.
    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • image
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe having lived this experience is exactly what got him so good at grading.
    "burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me."

    peacockcoins

  • melikecoinsmelikecoins Posts: 1,154 ✭✭
    image
    I don't buy slabs I make them
  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭
    Unless you've been living under a rock, their website says they're the most consistant grading service out there so it much be true.
    When you send in a coin to have a grade assigned, the submission form tells you to write in the grade you want for the coin.image
    Warning: Do not go to the website after a shower because you will still feel dirty.image

    Joe
    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • BikingnutBikingnut Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭
    I would have to ask the question, undergraded by who's standard? Maybe the coins that Centles kept that were in the "alledged" undergraded holders, were actually right on the mark, and the ones that were sold by AH Collectables were actually inflated.
    US Navy CWO3 retired. 12/81-09/04

    Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
  • I would say it was more likely that they correctly graded about half the coins. Don't you think Mr. Johnson would have been suspicious if EVERY SINGLE item he brought it was undergraded? Actually that is a fairly good methodology for taking someone. Mr. Johnson probably doesn't have time to review each and every slab.

    I'm sure the reason he sent them there was that they gave him a volume discount, he didn't have to pay shipping and people prefer to buy coins in slabs. Knowing this about him makes me feel quite sympathetic to him.
  • ClausUrchClausUrch Posts: 1,278
    Would this happen to be the same Robert Johnson as in this thread????
    Grading results



    << <i>This is the same Bob Johnson that won round 2(?) of the PCGS grading contest. If he's such a hot shot grader, how is it possible he got duped by Hager with undergraded coins? >>



    If so, why would a world class grader let his coins be so undergraded????
    Maybe we should not believe everything that is put in print?????image
  • tsacchtsacch Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭
    So what was the decision of the whole mess....what happened, fines etc?????????????/
    Family, kids, coins, sports (playing not watching), jet skiing, wakeboarding, Big Air....no one ever got hurt in the air....its the sudden stop that hurts. I hate Hurricane Sandy. I hate FEMA and i hate the blasted insurance companies.
  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Same Robert Johnson - the guy who sells on eBay as Centsles and who won the round of PCGS' "World series of Grading".
    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....

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