One Of My Favorite Coins is A Fake...

coinnerd

I was crushed when this one came back from NGC as not genuine.





I thought it was a great design and had to have it. I trusted the dealer I bought it from and even knew the collection it came from. Even though I bought it over two and a half years ago the dealer bought it back. Even he was fooled by this one. It is a very convincing die struck forgery and had to have been made in the 60's. Since it is so good I'm almost sure there have to be more(why go to so much trouble to only make one).

For those of you who would like to know, the diagonistics of this fake are: 1) the weight. A genuine coin should weigh 20g, this one is 19.7g very close but still too different to be explained by wear. 2) Behind the woman's head a few very small raised dots are visible. These are very hard to spot even with 10x magnification.

goldrush00013

Sorry to here that. You can bet that 98% of coin collectors have owned or do own a fake.

SYRACUSIAN

edited - hadn't read the initial post carefully

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>I was crushed when this one came back from NGC as not genuine.





I thought it was a great design and had to have it. I trusted the dealer I bought it from and even knew the collection it came from. Even though I bought it over two and a half years ago the dealer bought it back. Even he was fooled by this one. It is a very convincing die struck forgery and had to have been made in the 60's. Since it is so good I'm almost sure there have to be more(why go to so much trouble to only make one).

For those of you who would like to know, the diagonistics of this fake are: 1) the weight. A genuine coin should weigh 20g, this one is 19.7g very close but still too different to be explained by wear. 2) Behind the woman's head a few very small raised dots are visible. These are very hard to spot even with 10x magnification. >>



Hmm that is interesting. I've always been overconcered with fakes that my gold soverign is a fake. Its weight was .1 off from its supposed actual weight. I don't know how accurate the scale was but it was from a chemist lab and was eletronic. Actual gold soverigns (mine was 1913) should weigh 7.98-7.99. Mine read 8.0. It also had a red dot near the head. Most said it was a copper spot, I'm not sure what it was. Anyway, I'm sorry its a fake. Is the coin worth a significant amount of money? If its not and its just your favorite thats strange. It takes great skill to make a coin that perfect by a counterfeiter, and they mostly always do it only if the coin is worth a signifacant amount. For example a 20$ double eagle high relief I know a person bought it from a dealer unslabbed (AKA raw) from a dealer and he sent it in to a third party grading service that was not trustworthy. It came back geniune and slabbed. He then sent it to a trustworthy grading service. It came back as an omega counterfeit. The omega symbol near the eagles claw was buffed off, and under great magnifacation there were tool marks near the rays of the sun.

**Always be careful with coins you buy unslabbed at a dealer. I wouldn't recommend ever buying coins not slabbed by a respectful grading service at a dealer. Its useful also to buy a pocket microscope to check for yourself. If everything else fails submit it to ANACS, NGC, or PCGS. The major majority of counterfeit coins are high end coins. So always beware of the possibility of a counterfeit for the higher end coins. Always buy certificed coins off ebay only. (I wouldn't recommend buying raw coins off ebay, but thats just my personal opinion)

newsman

These coins are, unfortunately, commonly faked. When I lived in Ethiopia, I had the chance to see lots of questionable ones that weren't as well-done. Italian coins are one area where it's wise to buy slabs.

1jester

Coinnerd, I feel your pain. It's happened to me. After I bought an electronic scale accurate to one one-hundredth of a gram, I discovered more than a few coins in my collection were fakes. It's infuriating, in fact. Counterfeiters should be strung up. Or worse.

GoldLover, surely someone as astute as you should know the difference between 0.1 and 0.01, as well as the fact that if your scale is only accurate to one decimal place, it will be impossible to determine that your sovereign is fake based on a discrepancy such as you mention in your example of your sovereign weighing 8.0 grams and its correct weight of between 7.99 and 7.99 grams.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Coinnerd, I feel your pain. It's happened to me. After I bought an electronic scale accurate to one one-hundredth of a gram, I discovered more than a few coins in my collection were fakes. It's infuriating, in fact. Counterfeiters should be strung up. Or worse.

GoldLover, surely someone as astute as you should know the difference between 0.1 and 0.01, as well as the fact that if your scale is only accurate to one decimal place, it will be impossible to determine that your sovereign is fake based on a discrepancy such as you mention in your example of your sovereign weighing 8.0 grams and its correct weight of between 7.99 and 7.99 grams.

>>




The chemists teacher told me it rounds up to the nearest tenth. Its supposed to be 7.98 grams to 7.99 grams and mine was 8.0 grams. Does that mean it is probably fake?

1jester

I think your coin looks genuine. Naturally, it's impossible for me to be sure, from a picture.

What I was saying is that your coin is not off by one tenth of a gram (0.1 g) because if you round up from 7.99 to 8.00, that's one one-hundredth of a gram (0.01 g) and certainly within the tolerances of a real coin. But more importantly, I was saying that if your scale is accurate to only one decimal place (0.1) then there's no way you can determine the weight of your coin to an accuracy of two decimal places (0.01).

If you really must know if it's real or not, send it in to ANACS and I believe that for $15 they'll tell you if it is or not. However, I would NOT recommend doing that, as the coin is already damaged. My advice would be to sell it, take a small loss, and start again with something else.

Happy Collecting!

GoldCoinLover

I'm just afraid that if I sell it I won't get what I paid for it ($115). The scratchs really do look worse than the pic than I think they do in real life. I live in arizona and I went outside when the sun was glaring full force at 121 degree's outside . I put it down on the cement and took the photo, and unfortunately, it was at just the right angle and it made it look worse than it really does. However, of course, it really does have those scratchs just IMHO they don't look as bad as in the photo.

I don't have a job and money is really hard for me to come by so I don't think I could take a small loss. Do you think I should just keep it? How much would these scratchs dent the value in??

trozau

GCL, either keep the coin (if you can live with it) or sell the coin when gold goes a lot higher (enough to recover the premium you paid at melt value). It is very common to overpay for some coins in your collection as well as the opposite (I would say it leans more towards overpaying). What is important is that you are happy with your purchase and can live with the price that you paid for it.

Aethelred

GCL - If you have any doubts about your Sovereign, you really should send it to a grading service such as PCGS or ANACS to get an expert opinion.

Sunlight makes defects look much worse than they really are and you should never grade or photograph coins under those conditions.

Here are a few links that might help:
Basic Coin Grading
ANACS

1jester

"I don't have a job and money is really hard for me to come by so I don't think I could take a small loss."

Sometimes it's necessary to take a step back in order to go forward.

"Do you think I should just keep it?"

That's a decision you have to make for yourself. Life's fraught with decisions and risks.

"How much would these scratchs dent the value in??"

We've already answered this question too.

Happy Collecting!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>GCL - If you have any doubts about your Sovereign, you really should send it to a grading service such as PCGS or ANACS to get an expert opinion. >>



His sovereign is scratched. It would bodybag, no doubt about it.

ANACS would net grade it.

Back to the Italian coin, that woulda fooled me for sure. Major bummer.

GoldCoinLover

If I submitted my soverign to ANACS would they encapsule it and grade it?

cacheman

You don't comprehend the written word well, do you?

LovelyDarkAngel

i'd freak staright the -----out

GDJMSP

Sorry to hear thebad news Luckily it sounds like you had a good dealer in this case. Not all are that lucky.

JadeRareCoin

If it makes you feel any better, we handled $80,000 worth of counterfeit ancient gold a few months ago, and there were only 4 coins in the group! An image of one is provided below. Before we made any financial commitment, we spent $350 to have them authenticated by leading experts. It's money out of our pocket that cannot be recovered, but it's a lot better than an $80,000 loss!

wybrit

One Of My Favorite Coins is A Fake...