Seems like we need a refresher course on ACG coins

K6AZ

Once again a board member has bought an ACG coin. I find this very disappointing considering the amount of work I have put into making collectors aware of what is typically in ACG slabs, especially better date Morgans. For your view pleasure, or disgust as the case may be:

XpipedreamR

Oh, dear.

DennisH

Nicely cleaned, isn't it?

mgoodm3

Mmmm. Nothing warms the heart like sitting in the sun on a warm day with a Morgan dollar and a Brillo pad.

kamehameha00

Steel wool sure does make a coin shiny,dosen't it?

nepbrs44

SCRUB-A-DUB-DUB!!!

rottnrog

Am I seeing what isn't there or does it look like the 95 was added!!

itsnotjustme

I was at a show today. A guy came by a dealer's table, flipped down an ACG MS65 Morgan and asked what bid was. The dealer politely looked it up, told him $150, then added "That's for a properly graded coin such as PCGS or NGC. ACG would not even be close."

The guy just walked off.

airplanenut

Check out those die polish lines!

K6AZ

No, it was a genuine 95-O. That's the only good thing I could say about it. This coin was harshly cleaned, had altered surfaces to hide deep marks, and had PVC to boot.

RiffRaff1967

Wow. How in the h e double hockey sticks... I know, it's ACG.

joecool

Rookie........

Prometheus183

NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!

Could have at least used a Craftsman or Snap-On screwdriver to scrape it with!

Mom always said, "Don't use the butter knives to clean the good silver with!!"


Craig

ealandg

This is sad and I hate it. Why can't people just advertise their damaged coins for what they are?

Prometheus183

Ya know, I might have spoken too harshly at first. ACG may be right on spot with this one. In fact, If I take my glasses off, stand in the next room and look at it from 30 feet away, it is indeed AU53. I might even be so bold to say they undergraded it (at another 10 feet)!

Wow,.. I'll bet even I could be an ACG grader! Will ya'll back me up on this and vouch for my 30 foot distance grading?

Come on,... take the ACG challenge,... I dare ya!!


Craig

Goldfinger

Maybe that's a metric 53.

nankraut

I've looked at this one closely, because I think everybody should be non-prejudicial, so I say: BARF, BARF, BARF

Russ

I sold an 1895-O a while back that looked very similar to that one.



Not quite as polished, though.

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ

Here is another great example of their grading:

lava

Those Accucrap people really piss me off.

K6AZ

Your coin doesn't look anywhere near as bad Russ. This one was a real mess.

airplanenut

That cent looks much more like a full-blown RED...






Edited to add:

Russ

<< <i>Your coin doesn't look anywhere near as bad Russ. >>



It had definitely seen some strong brillo pad action, though. It spent some time in an album afterward. It was a perfect example of a collector that got screwed by a dealer while building his Morgan set. Came in as part of a sizable collection I bought from his kids after he passed on. It was sold to him as BU for a hell of a lot more than it was worth.

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ

Yes Russ, I remember those days well and for all the people who think legitimate slabs are a bad thing, we don't want to go back to those days.

Jeremy, you left off the smiley. You are kidding aren't you?

airplanenut

<< <i>Jeremy, you left off the smiley. You are kidding aren't you? >>

Oh, no, I wasn't kidding












<-------------------------- Smiley remembered

Barry

<< <i>That cent looks much more like a full-blown RED... >>


More like a full-blown PINK.

K6AZ

As bad as that 1910 Lincoln is, I saw a 1909-S VDB in the same grade ACG holder, "MS63RB". The coin was a lower AU that appeared to have been polished with Brasso. At least it was genuine.

Fairlaneman

Has anyone ever seen a decent coin in one of their slabs ? I have not but of course I hardly ever look at those slabs. Not many of them are in this section of the country. Maybe a chance will be had next week at the ANA show in Portland.

Ken

ealandg

I wouldn't know. I see one and I run screaming.

K6AZ

Ken, ACG has about had it. But there are still a lot of coins floating around in their slabs, as we heard from the guy who bought a 96-O in a "MS62" ACG slab.

dragon

K6AZ,

As much as I dislike ACG and their people, and wouldn't touch one of their holders with a 10 foot pole, I think it's only fair to mention that ALL 3rd party services make mistakes and holder bad coins.

Let's not forget about that recent incedent with PCGS and that 1913-D $20.00 Saint that PCGS graded as MS66 (pop. 1 finest known!) that was puttied, and then it took two grade reviews for PCGS to finally admit their error and buy the coin back. That was a big topic of discussion here if anyone remembers.

NGC has also made MORE than their fair share of grading mistakes.

dragon

K6AZ

Well, I could go on and on with examples, but I think the ones I have already posted, and this one are enough. This coin is sitting in an ACG "MS65" holder:

K6AZ

The problem is Dragon that the mistakes in PCGS and NGC holders are a fraction of 1%. The percentage of misgraded coins in ACG holders, especially for better dates, is astronomical. Trying to compare ACG to PCGS or NGC is ludicrous.

K6AZ

And please, show me just one pink Lincoln or Indian in a PCGS or NGC holder. This goes beyond mistakes, it is numismatic fraud and most people know it.

K6AZ

Oh, and one more thing. When PCGS or NGC make a mistake, they make good on it by paying off on their guarantee, and I know several board members here who have received compensation from PCGS. What happens when you present a "mistake" to ACG? Ask Larry Whitlow

dragon

K6AZ,

I wasn't comparing ACG to PCGS or NGC, just simply pointing out that ALL 3rd party services have made gross errors in the past, and that no grading service is even even close to 100% accurate IMO.

K6AZ

Maybe not Dragon, but the errors NGC and PCGS makes are truly mistakes, and they guarantee their coins. ACG "mistakes" are not mistakes, and see the link I posted above to see how they handle them.

dragon

Believe me K, I know what you're saying and I think ACG is a joke too......just givin' you a hard time

Kriek

This is enough to force new numismatists like myself out of the hobby. I know that there is no substitution for learning to grade coins yourself, but unless you are buying face-to-face with the seller, that option is rarely available.

K6AZ

Jon, no one should rely on any holder's grade, even those by PCGS and NGC. But when you are forced to do most of your purchases online, PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG offer some guarantee that you are getting a genuine, unadulterated coin. I've even sent a few PCGS coins back because I didn't agree with the grade. But sticking to reputable slabs, you can cut down the problems that were everywhere before there were slabs. The sellers who would sell whizzed AU coins in the old days are still selling them as Uncs, only now in third rate slabs such as ACG, PCI and NTC.

ElectricEye

you have a good chance of making a little money buying ACG slabs




just make sure you only bid (including shipping) to 10% below melt

Coppernicus

K6AZ - Love the 1910! That color has just got to be the result of being stored properly for 94 years and never handled without cotton gloves.

Not to rain on this anti-ACG thread, but two weeks ago, I bought a 1916-P Merc in an MS66 FB ACG holder. Of course, it was at a local dealer so I could look closely at it. It is FB but not a 66. I'm thinking 64, shot 65 if I cracked it, but I think I'll crack and dip and put it in a Kointain. Decent coin, but overgraded.

I'd never buy an ACG slab without having it in-hand first. Even with an ebay seller who has a return policy, who needs the hassle?

Mike

K6AZ

Yeah, I thought some of you copper guys would get a kick out of the 1910 Lincoln.

If you look on my website, you will see a couple of common Morgan and Peace Dollars actually crossed - but what would be the point of overgrading these? Where they really put the screws to collectors are on the better dates and more expensive coins.

RGL

Yes, I have found one -- count 'em, one -- decent coin in an ACG slab, a $7 1961 PR-69 DCAM Jefferson that was liberated and graded PR-69 CAM (22/0) at PCGS. I have never seen another worth buying since...

coinvet

How does ACG manage to hang on w/o going down for the count? How many stakes does it take?

LucyBop

I have noticed a tremendous drop in ACG slabs at all the coin shows I have been attending....

JadeRareCoin

Dammit K6AZ, I was eating dinner when I read this thread and I just puked all over my keyboard!!

Yes, that's a typical example of an ACG slabbed coin. One of these days I will share my face-2-face confrontation with Hager. Maybe I will even share my accidental meeting with his obnoxiously drunk employee at the ILNA show a few years ago.

K6AZ

Sorry JRC, but with the amount of people posting about the great "deals" they have got on ACG stuff lately, I felt it was necessary to demonstrate what is typically in ACG holders.

LucyBop

My Little HotStuff.......


I'll say this, great deals can be found in NGC/IGC holders...... But one must really know their series.........


I have looked at many ACG slabs, and PCI, the quality has been horrible....

You would think that they would screw up and actually grade something right every now and then, and they probably do, but after seeing so many of these slabs I donnot wan't to see anymore...

ICG on the other hand........ I have found many GEMs in these holders.....

K6AZ

You are correct my little deviless. One of the best crosses I have had was an ICG rainbow Morgan that ICG slabbed as a 63. PCGS gave it a 64. It was bought for between 63 and 64 greysheet.

nankraut

Lucybop is a "little deviless"? I've never heard of one of those.