50c Proof experts, a question. Giveaway!
Dimetime
Posts: 338
I bought 150 proof sets a while ago from 1959 to 1964. These proof sets must have never been touched since bought. I'm opening and storing correctly in airtights taking extra care to blow out any debris and to not touch them. Anyway, the coins are absolutely flawless for the most part. I'm finding heavy cameos on the a few 50c and 25c coins. Problem is the other side is usually brilliant, or very light cameo. I'm trying to filter out the best to submit and am wondering how are coins graded that are obviously heavy cameo on one side and little or none on other? I think these have a chance at very high grades as even under a 10x loupe they are virtually perfect. Give me an idea on what to look for in this type of coin to get the best chance of high grade and max value. Best info on this will be sent a very nice proof out of these, your choice of dates from 1960-1964.
Merc collector.
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Comments
<< <i>Is one sided more the rule with both sides being the far less common? >>
This is more true of the Franklin than it is the Kennedy. There are some absolute monster DCAM obverse Frankies with brilliant reverses. With the Kennedy, though, when one finds ultra heavy cameo on one side, you'll usually find at least cameo on the other side. One sided cameos (not DCAM) are common with the Kennedy, though.
<< <i>Give me an idea on what to look for in this type of coin to get the best chance of high grade and max value. >>
All this is based on the assumption that it's PCGS doing the grading.
The single most important thing, numero uno with them, is hairlines. They are much more forgiving of a spot or two, a nick or ding or a touch of haze, than they are of hairlining. One hairline visible at a glance, and you're in a 67 holder. Two, 66, three, 65, more no better than 64 - UNLESS the coin is so stunning that it gets a point bump.
For cameo, deep cameo designation, field depth is very, very important on these. I know some people argue that it's frost that makes the designation and, while that's certainly important, my experience tells me that the mirrors play a greater role when it comes to deep cameo.
Also, it is frequently said that a DCAM cannot have any frost breaks or fades. That is simply not true. If a coin has extraordinary mirror depth for it's particular year - I mean the kind that looks like a black hole - a small frost break or fade will be forgiven. In other words, it's the overall impression the coin makes, not any single factor.
If the coin has a spot or two, say glue for example, and it's tucked away near the rim, or hidden in the lettering, this will usually only mean a one point drop in the grade. In a more visible location, a two point drop.
Very light outer peripheral haze will only drop it a point. As the amount of haze increases and moves toward the centers, the grade drop increases. Too much haze will keep the coin out of a cameo or deep cameo holder.
Note that all of the above is subject, again, to the overall coin. One that knocks the grader's dick in the dirt with visual stunning appeal will frequently be given a little room and a one point bump.
Here's an example of a coin that got a one point bump for eye appeal:
The coin should have graded PR68 because of the glue spot on the "T" at the top on the reverse. It graded 69CAM. In the real world, it's a DCAM, but PCGS doesn't always live in the real world.
While were at it, here's a Frankie that graded PR67CAM:
That's one that is right on the cusp of DCAM. It has the depth and clarity of mirrors that PCGS likes, but comes up just a touch short in overall contrast.
Russ, NCNE
Nice Frankie. The reason it's CAM and not DCAM is the frost breaks on the cheek and bell.
you don't need to look at the coins with any magnification to weed out the lesser coins for the PCGS submission. get some good lighting, i use halogen because it's "hard" and will show and ticks or hailines. hold the coin your inspecting and rotate it to get a good look at it under lighting to reveal hairlines. that will be the real killer with PCGS. also, note any milkspots. those are the result of the minting process and will appear as a discolored circular spot, usually in the fields but really anywhere on the coin. you have enough coins to look through that you'll be surprised at the progress you make in finding the flaws after many coins.
with regard to one sided CAM's, they'll be holdered as brilliant proofs.
the most important thing for you to do is get rid of the loupe and assess the coins with your eyes only.
al h.
Well, I'd check for carbon spots, "water" marks, hairlines, nicks, and haze. Then sort out those that I would think have a chance at cam and dcam: ones with heavily frosted details and deep deep mirrors.
<< <i>The reason it's CAM and not DCAM is the frost breaks on the cheek and bell. >>
Maybe, maybe not. There are plenty of the 1956 Type 2's in DCAM holders with identical breaks, as this is very common on these.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>What do you mean by "glue spot"? >>
Sometimes when the proofs were sealed in the celo, the sealing process would extrude little globules, (for lack of a better word), on to the coin. That's why, when they happen, they're usually at the periphery. It's not really "glue" per se, just as milk spots aren't really "milk".
There may be some other fancy technical term for them; I use the word glue to differentiate from milk spots since the spotting is different. Glue spots can sometimes be reduced or removed completely. In the Kennedy I posted above the spot was much larger and more opaque prior to conservation. Milk spots are there to stay.
Russ, NCNE
PS, Russ is the leader right now. probably no surprise. Hoping Lucy at least will jump in.
I've found 6 that meet these criteria. Broken rays and straight G on reverse. Clearly different from the others I have. But on the obverse, the I looks normal and I still can't see a difference in the hair. Is it possible to have the reverse diagnostics and not be accented hair? I'll send these to you if need be. Thanks
John Voege
<< <i>how are coins graded that are obviously heavy cameo on one side and little or none on other? >>
Dimetime- Give some serious thought to submitting those coins to NGC where they have an excellent chance of receiving the star* designation. They will tend to bring a better selling price.
<< <i>Is it possible to have the reverse diagnostics and not be accented hair? >>
Yes. It's called the transitional variety - combining ODV-002 with RDV-001. Very little premium on these.
Russ, NCNE