Grade On this coin?

GoldCoinLover

I bought a 1913 british gold soverign from american gold exchange. I put a few scratchs into it to see if it was plated, I emailed PCGS customer support and they said there is a great chance that they wouldn't grade it due to the intentional scratchs. I'm going to take my chances and send it in anyway. ::Sigh:: . I wanted it graded! Anyway, what grade does it look like to you guys? I got it as BU. It came with a red copper dot where the scratchs are. I assume its a copper spot, but I don't really know. Here's the pic:

spinaker2000

It will get BB'ed for sure. So don't send it in. Use that money towards another nice coin purchase or book.

wybrit

Sovereigns of this era aren't worth slab-grading as a rule, even if unscratched.

lordmarcovan

Don't waste your money on sending that in. It'll bodybag for sure. Even if it weren't scratched, it might not be worth slabbing, as wybrit mentioned. It's not worth enough premium over the bullion value to justify grading fees. Keep it raw. It does look like a generic BU coin to me, aside from the damage. It's basically worth melt, I'd imagine.

satootoko

The price of gold is climbing. When the gold content gets close to what you paid,

1jester

Satoo, shame on you! Quit trying to tempt the kid...

GoldLover, all you have to do is keep the coin, and sell it when the price of gold rises. Or sell it now and use the money to buy another, premium coin, or something else. I wouldn't recommend spending the money to have it slabbed, even if it were unscratched.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Satoo, shame on you! Quit trying to tempt the kid...

GoldLover, all you have to do is keep the coin, and sell it when the price of gold rises. Or sell it now and use the money to buy another, premium coin, or something else. I wouldn't recommend spending the money to have it slabbed, even if it were unscratched.


>>



If I did send it in would they slab it or return it raw?

GoldCoinLover

I really don't want to sell it. I'm kind of attached to it .. I'm afraid if I send it in to american gold exchange (Where I bought it from) they might send me a counterfeit. Plus, I don't think I can return it now, its probably been to long. I paid 115$ for it. It came unscratched, but with a red dot where I put the scratchs. I think that was a copper spot. How much do you think the scratchs would dent the value? Do you guys think it looks geniune? Also, I noticed 2 things:

It says B.P to the right of the date, and it says B.M right under the neck of george (on the other side). Its supposed to say these things right? And Satoo, should I really get it melted when the price of gold goes up?

Thanks

trozau

BP stands for Benedetto Pistrucci who designed the St George design used on Sovereigns. BM is the initials of the George V bust designer (not sure but could be Metcalf?). If there is a mint mark on the coin, you will find it just below the rear right hoof of St George's horse (London - no mint mark, M - Melbourne, S - Sydney, P - Perth or C - Ottawa).

satootoko

By "melt it", what I am really saying is sell it to a coin shop, jeweler, pawn shop, or even the place you bought it, which pays "melt", the slang shortcut term meaning "bullion value of the gold content". Krause gives the AGW (actual gold weight) as .2354 oz, which is a couple of hairs more than my own calculation for the gold content of a 1/4 oz. 22k item - .2292 oz). That would be worth $115 with gold selling for $488, which it might well do by the end of the year considering recent trends. Right now the bullion value is ~$95 or so. Consider it a relatively cheap lesson at this point, which could well become cheaper.

The points that several posters have made about the wisdom of slabbing that coin are that (1) PCGS, NGC, or any reputable grader would undoubtedly "body bag" it, which simply means return it unslabbed, keeping your fee payment for their services in telling you what you already know - it's damaged; and (2) that undamged coins in its value range aren't likely to sell for enough of a premium over raw coins to cover the cost of embalming in plastic. (Hint - while not a member of the Society for the Abolition of Slabs , I'm not a big supporter of their use for world coinage.)

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>By "melt it", what I am really saying is sell it to a coin shop, jeweler, pawn shop, or even the place you bought it, which pays "melt", the slang shortcut term meaning "bullion value of the gold content". Krause gives the AGW (actual gold weight) as .2354 oz, which is a couple of hairs more than my own calculation for the gold content of a 1/4 oz. 22k item - .2292 oz). That would be worth $115 with gold selling for $488, which it might well do by the end of the year considering recent trends. Right now the bullion value is ~$95 or so. Consider it a relatively cheap lesson at this point, which could well become cheaper.

The points that several posters have made about the wisdom of slabbing that coin are that (1) PCGS, NGC, or any reputable grader would undoubtedly "body bag" it, which simply means return it unslabbed, keeping your fee payment for their services in telling you what you already know - it's damaged; and (2) that undamged coins in its value range aren't likely to sell for enough of a premium over raw coins to cover the cost of embalming in plastic. (Hint - while not a member of the Society for the Abolition of Slabs , I'm not a big supporter of their use for world coinage.)http://forums.collectors.com/i/authorsicons/icon_nono.gif"> >>



I believe you but why are people so certain they would bodybag it when the scratchs "could've" been from wear? They are from wear, but how would the graders know for certain someone did this on purpose and it didn't just get those scratchs though wear? Do they know because the rest of the coin is realtivily in tact besides those scratchs? The person I bought it from said it was BU but it could've been lower then BU, perhaps AU, or XF, where it is circulated and may have gotten scratchs due to the circulation. I'm just confused on why you guys know so quickly they'd reget it when they don't know for a fact that the scratchs was caused intentionally. I appreciate your help on this and as I regret it, (I want it certificed to know that it is geniune for sure), I will go with your advice and not send it in.

wybrit

B.M. = Bertram Mackennal, the designer of the George V effigies.

cacheman

Where are my boots?

MacCrimmon

GCL, Roy gives you the best advice. Either sell it now (for a $20-25 loss) or hold it until gold hits around $490-495 per troy ounce and you will about break even. The dealer, pawn, etc. will pay 3-5% back of melt for the coin. How much do the scratches affect the value of this gold coin? Not much at all. $20 or so. If you scratched the half sovereign in my sig line like the 1913 sov., it would erase about $2500 in value. Scratches, you see, are quite relative.

We know it will 'no-grade' because of experience. Call it the School of Hard Knocks. The tuition there is high for everyone. The summa cum laude graduate quickly and hence don't pay as much, but they still pay.

Even if you happen to be Warren Buffett, NEVER USE A MECHANICAL INSTRUMENT ON A COIN TO ATTEMPT TO REMEDY A FLAW!!

If you buy a coin with a flaw, accept it. Preferably, ask questions first, learn and understand the correct answers which were given to you, and apply them in your collecting.

As to the graders thinking it's just natural wear, sorry, most are the summa cum laude grads of HKU, and their daddies were professors at the school. Trust us, they know what mechanical damage is. Wear on this coin would amount to frost breaks across the cheek, eyebrow and areas in the hair, and numerous super-fine whispy hairlines on the devices and the fields.

How do you determine minor wear (AU-58) from baggy BU (MS60-62).....EXPERIENCE! You will have to see the coins with your eyes using a loupe if necessary. Someone knowlegeable will have to show you many samples and point out what is and what isn't wear.

Lastly, if possible, attend a major show where there are many thousands of auction lots and go look at coins which cover the spectrum of choice XF to say, MS67. Look for the subtle differences in these grades for yourself. Ask a dealer on the bourse floor to show you samples of AU to gem unc. for your education.

Also, if you can afford it, your best bet is to spend your next $300-400 on the intro grading classes at the ANA in Colorado Springs, CO or try to attend when they have shorter classes at Regional shows. If you really want to spend time in this hobby, lay the foundation now....you'll be rewarded in the future.

Now, get to work studying and learning about coins...it's a great hobby!

P.S. My first real buy was an uncirculated 1913-D buffalo nickel which was really about AU-55. That was in 1980. Tuition to the first class ran about $150......my thanks to Ed Hipps at that time for kicking my rear and setting me onto the 'Glorious Path'!!