** POLL -- Grade My New PROOF 1898 Morgan !! ** Grade & New Photos Revealed !! **

Stuart

Please let me know what you'd guess the grade of my new 1898 Proof Morgan Dollar to be, and I'll post the actual grade on Saturday night.

I respect your opinions, and I'm also I'm curious what the forum's consensus of opinion is on the grade of this coin.

I'll post the grade on Saturday evening to give you some time to respond, if that's OK with you... Thanks for participating!!

jbsteven

coppercoins

Ummm....is this a total guess or do we get an image to look at?

stman

Tough enough to grade any coin by an image. But a Proof is impossible to see hairlines and such.

I'll guess PR62.

ealandg

I don't know anything about proof morgans, but this one is very attractive. I guessed PF66 Cameo.

Stuart

stman & coppercoins: The coin images should be visible now in my previous post on this thread...

1234567890

Where is the PF-70Dcam choice?

relayer

I'd say PF64. Nice coin.

kamehameha00

PR67

nepbrs44

PRCAM67

ddink

67 CAM is my guess.

nederveit

I'm going 65CAM, but I couldn't grade kindergarten math.

Blade

Holy crap - that is beautiful. But tough to see mirrors, so I'm guessing slightly abraded PR64 CAM. Nice coin Stuart - that toning is top notch.

Edited to say... you are well on your way to an album toned dollar type set!

numobri

I'd like to give it a CAM,but can't tell using your picture's.

I gave it a "66"

Stuart;I think you have very good tast when it comes to coins.

stman

I'm the low-ball guess so far. I base my opinion of PR62 due to the few hits I see in the face. Higher grade proofs won't have hits but rather a few hairlines. Since I see a few hits I'm assuming there are hairlines to go with it as well. Or I could be way off and not have a clue. I'll stick with my original guess of PR62. I once owned a PR66 Morgan.

Stuart

Interesting so far -- Initial poll results summarized:

50% Votes between PR-66 and PR-67 CAM
25% Votes between PR-64 & PR-64 CAM
Remaining 25% spread widely above & below those grades

Please continue the voting to get ready for this November

K6AZ

Boy, this one is really tough to guess from the images. I'm fairly certain it isn't a cameo. I see some very light hits here and there. Going by the image, I vote PF66.

Regardless of the grade, as I said in the other thread, it is a pretty coin and one to be proud of.

Cam40

Really cant get an accurate grade from pics but hey, that doesnt usually stop us from guessing
does it.

Okay..my guess is.........PR-65, just making the gem status for clean cheek,barring the ever-so-slight
weak area over the ear.

Hairlines?.....hmmm ,cant see em but knowing how stman knows his Morgans, I think he could be right
that some do exist on that one.
Maybe I should say 63........

Ryana

Baley

I think it might be lower than most people are guessing. Something about the photos.

Not saying it's not a nice coin, it is very pretty, but something about that angle...

cosmicdebris

From the lighting and the images you can not see any cam or dcam. But nice strike and eye appeal I give it a PR66.

Dennis88

PR-67 I think.

Dennis

anablep

Beautiful Coin!!
Given the VAM book states 1898 Proofs are usually well struck, as your's seems to be, and they usually have a deep cameo appearance, I'll say PF-66 CAM

boiler78

Impossible to grade proof coins from a digital image. Hairlines are nearly impossible to detect especially on proofs. I collect proof patterns and even the most heavily hairlined coins look like gems in digital images. That being said I grade the image Gem but the coin could be anywhere between proof 60 and proof 67. No matter what the holder says thats a very attractive coin.

As an example of what I am talking about take a look at this coin from Rick Kays inventory. This coin has the look of a stunning gem in the image. patterncoins.com

Zerbe

Overall, very attractive Morgan Proof, but as most people have said before me, impossible to accurtately grade by the photo. I have a PR67 DCAM in my set, which does not help me grade your coin, because that is the main problem with the photo, being that I cannot tell if it is DCAM or even Cameo, so I will guess PR67.

Wolf359

64CAM. It's impossible to determine the hairlining from the photos though. Could be lower. I deducted because of apparent marks on the chin.

Yes, I read another posters comment about a possible fingerprint. Very observant! Does not detract though,
gives it some personality.

boiler78

Just wanted to add. I put a set of proof Morgans together several years ago (sans the 1921 Zerbe and Chapman) and in the process I've looked at hundreds of them. I honestly don't remember seeing an 1898 that wasn't at least cameo with most being dcams. 1898 was a very good year at the Phily mint.

RiffRaff1967

Grading proofs has always been my nemesis, but I'll give it a shot.

PR67 CAM.

Stuart

With 52 votes received so far the poll results summarized are:

82% of the votes fall into these 7 categories

7 votes 14% for PR-67 CAM
7 Votes 14% for PR-67
7 Votes 14%for PR-66 CAM
7 Votes 14% for PR-66
4 Votes...8% for PR-65 CAM
6 Votes 12% for PR-64 CAM
3 Votes... 6% for PR-64

The remaining 18% falls into various (mostly lower) categories... Very interesting... Thanks to all who have voted so far!!

I value your opinion, so please continue the voting to get ready for this November

cosmicdebris

Any chance of other pictures at a different angle or in different lighting?

dizzlecc

My magic eight ball says.....hold on I'm shaking it..... it says....definitely I think so.....translated to proof 62 cam or stu ms yeah baby.

BIGDAVE

It doesn't matter the grade, i think a proof Deep cameo Morgan is the prettiest coin ever minted by the us mint.

Crazy4Coins

Stuart, I love it... my guess is PR65 ...

Goldfinger

It's still a beautiful coin. I voted for Pat Buchanan.

Russ

PR58.

Russ, NCNE

mgoodm3

I'll say 67 no Cam. 67 could be generous, angled shots can minimize marks and abrasions. CAM's tend to look dark on the relief with angle. The rev may be CAM but the obv doesn't look it to me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

dragon

I think a lot of people are gonna be surprised when he posts the grade, just a hunch.

dragon

toners

Nice coin Stuart, PF66?
Allen

Stuart

Thanks to everyone who participated and also to several of you who PM'd me with your comments.

With 66 votes received so far the poll results summarized are:

82% of the votes fall into these 9 categories

..8 Votes 12% for PR-67 CAM
11 Votes 17% for PR-67
..1 Vote.... 2% for PR-66 DCAM
..7 Votes 11% for PR-66 CAM
..8 Votes 12% for PR-66
..6 Votes...9% for PR-65 CAM
..2 Votes ..3% for PR-65
..7 Votes 11% for PR-64 CAM
..3 Votes.. 5% for PR-64

The remaining 18% falls into various (mostly lower) categories... Very interesting... Thanks to all who have voted!!

cosmicdebris

Geez Russ thinks he's dealing with Marty

ddink

So tell us already! What grade is it?!

Stuart

First of all, thanks to everyone who participated in this poll and thanks to several of you who PM'd me with your comments. The answer is that the 1898 Proof Morgan grade is PCGS PR-62 CAM

Congratulations of the first order go STMAN who stuck his neck out on a limb and guessed the correct numerical grade. Baley and Dragon also had the right idea on a conservative grade for this coin. Thanks also to CoinGuy1 with whom I discussed (via PM) this specific coin and the logic for this poll. DizzleCC knew the grade yesterday, and was disqualified from honorable mention for trading of insider information... He will be next on the SEC's list to prosecute after Martha Stewart (He's a friend so I can rag on him a bit!)

I will post 5 pictures of this coin for your review -- the original 2 (Obv & Rev) which highlight the toning, and an additional 2 photos (Obv & Rev) in harsher light which reveal some of the few very light contact marks and some faint hairlines. In my opinion, none of which detract from the aesthetic beauty of the coin, or distract you from the wonderful chromatic symmetry of the peripheral intermingled blue & red concentric toning on the obverse -- which happens to complement my 1799 Bust Dollar author icon (at left). The reverse also has possesses beautiful reddish brown peripheral toning which lightens towards the center of the coin. The 5th picture is of the slabbed coin showing the grade.

The attractive toning tends to soften the visual impact of the minor contact marks and the faint hairlines -- so it has the dual benefit of adding beauty and softening minor blemishes... This again proves what some of the most knowledgable members of this forum continue to say -- which is you can't grade a coin from a photo -- although sometimes you can establish its maximum grade from a photo...

Most people who know me and my coin purchasing habits know that I generally won't even pay MS-65 prices for most common Morgan Dollars. I personally refuse to pay either what I feel is either the "MS-65 premium" or the "DMPL premium" -- so even for common & CC Morgans (as a general rule) my preferred target grade is MS-64 PL

Based on this purchasing philosophy of "high bang for the buck" -- I always go for high eye appeal coins of moderate price... That's also why I have really begun to love AU-58 19th Century type coins...

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts and getting your reactions to the grade. Thanks again for making this a very enjoyable way for me to share my new prize with you all!!!

Baley

a very nice coin and IMO a value grade to buy a proof Morgan in, if it has the eye appeal of your coin. Some coins in this grade, though, can be unattractive, with blotchy or dark toning.

coincidentally, my proof Morgan is also a PCGS 62, this one white with a moderate quantity of light hairlines accounting for the grade. This one has some contrast but just misses the CAM designation



they're what I would think of as a decent, entry level proof dollar

I have really begun to love AU-58 19th Century type coins

Stuart

Baley: Thanks for sharing your coin also. It' a great feeling to finally own my first proof Morgan!

Wolf359

Amazing how it looks under different lighting, revealing the hairlines. Angles are everything with some coins.

Sold my only proof Morgan at the B&M show an 1880 PCGS PR63CAM for $2,415. I miss it already.

coinguy1

Fun thread Stuart - thanks.

As I'd mentioned in my PM yesterday, based upon the (first set of) images, I would have estimated a grade of PR63 to PR67. The coin looked superb, but, I know that hairlines on Proof coins are easily masked by images, unintentionally by some and intentionally by others. Still, I think if I'd had to pick one number, I would have said PR66 Cameo.

The newer/second set of images (with hairlines apparent) would have caused me to guess somewhere between PR62 and PR64, probably PR63 Cameo. What, in the photographing techniques in the two sets of images, caused such big differences in the appearance (color, hairlines and cameo contrast) of the coin?

jbsteven

Mark

I took the photos of this coin (it was mine). The first set was with a Reveal light bulb and at a angle to capture the color. The second set was with a regular bulb to show the hairlines and also trying to get the color to show.

Stuart

<< <i>As you know, I got it from a really nice forum member who is quite a market maker for toned coins, and who has a very sharp eye for grading -- especially Morgan Dollars... I consider him a personal friend and a great source of high quality coins -- as well as PCGS Blue Boxes >>



I excerpted my above quote from the sister thread on this same coin to give proper coin source and photo credit to Jason Stevens also known on the forum as JBSteven.

Jason, as you can probably tell I love the coin and am very pleased with it -- especially as my first Morgan Proof with the added benefit of a Cameo designation and what I consider to be "Killer" Blue/Red Peripheral Toning.

As Cardinal would say, thanks very much for allowing me to be the newest custodian of this numismatic treasure...

dizzlecc

Super nice coin I look forward to seeing it.

The difference in the different pictures reminds me to be careful when grading/buying a coin based on just pictures.

JadeRareCoin

Awesome coin Stuart! Even though I am late to this thread, I played the game. My guess was PF-64 CAM. The images taken with the reveal light really make it look close to Gem Proof. I absolutely love the color. For a 62, it has the eye appeal of a 65. Nice acquisition.

Dennis