Lincoln: SMS or not SMS ?

ss350camaro

First let me say that i recently signed up to view and post to these boards, and have been amazed at the knowledge base that exists here.
I've been collecting for a few years. Started with Morgans (need 5 more to complete a full "Intercept Shield" book set.) Then moved to Peace Dollars (finally completed a full, high grade, "Intercept Shield" book set.)
Now i spend my time with small cents (Lincolns mostly) Just finished a complete ungraded set 1909 - 2003.
At one point i decided to collect a Lincoln Memorial Proof set in PCGS graded condition. ('59 - .....) I realized that the '65, '66, & '67 were not considered "proofs" but decided to include high grade examples of each to fill the 3 missing "grooves" in the PCGS boxes as i aquired the set.
Ok ........... With all of that out of the way i'll finally ask my question:
In collecting the 3 year SMS Lincolns i recognized that there is also non-SMS Lincolns for those same 3 years.
If a person handed you 2 loose 1965 Lincolns for example, one being from a SMS set and one not, how would you tell the difference ?
This is probably a "no brainer" for a lot of you but bear with us non informed people out there :-)

Thanks

melikecoins

Some times it is easy to tell the difference between the two.
Then again it is not.

I have submitted several high grade circulated Lincolns to PCGS only to have them called SMS.

Which means that they are worth less in the end. That is SMS<MS in terms of dollar value.

Glen

Russ

<< <i>This is probably a "no brainer" for a lot of you but bear with us non informed people out there :-) >>



I wish it were a no-brainer. Hell, it's not even a no-brainer for the graders at PCGS. They screw it up all the time. A late strike SMS coin can look just like a business strike and an early strike business strike in excellent condition is easily mistaken for an SMS. The prooflike SMS coins are easy, though.

The pop for higher grade business strikes in these years is pretty low, and I think one of the reasons for that is that a lot of business strikes got stuck in SMS holders for no other reason than the fact that they "look too good". Many of us here have been through that crap.

Adding to the difficulty is that, (and this relates to Kennedy halves), there are very few distinct die marriages specific only to business strikes. Most were used for both types of coins.

Russ, NCNE

cladking

Russ nailed it and there is another complicating factor: Some of the dies were retired from SMS
production and moved to the coinage floor to strike circulation issues. None of these would have
struck PL's after being used for up to 30,000 SMS strikes but they did strike some outstanding gems
before they wore out.

merz2

Russ and CK are quite correct.Even for a long time collector you could miss the differences.I've seen some outstanding circulation strikes that most would swear were the SMS coins.Some of the dies were indeed used for both.So even the die characteristics we all look for could be on both.The late die state SMS could look very much like the Early die state MS circulation strikes.You will have to look at many of both,before you'll be able to pick out the difference.That is the only way I know of.