VAMS: Who is really collecting these?

CalGold

Alright, this is my third in VAM post for the day. Who out there is a dedicated collector of VAMs?

CG

DennisH

I'm not dedicated in the sense of doing the Top 100 and such, but I'm VERY serious about 30 or so of 'em!

JadeRareCoin

I have historically avoided VAMs, but lately I am taking a closer look at coins that come through the shop and have made some good finds. Here's a great resource that I use for VAM information:

VAM Web Site

Peaceman

I've moved into the Peace $ VAM sector about 3 months ago buying only the hardest ones.... (I got bored because I couldn't find anymore blast white 1928 Peace $ for sale....)

Check my post on the other thread... some nice pics up there......

Wolf359

I do. For example, I just submitted the following numerous VAMs to ANACS including this one:

1878 Rev 79, Top 100 Washed out L, VAM-223 (cherried on eBay)
eBay link

Also, I'm selling some now as well on eBay. Getting a good number of bids too. Mostly I collect 21-D die breaks and filled dies.
Can't get enough of them. I should add these varities are all plainly visible to the naked eye.

Stuart

I like to collect the really obvious VAM's, such as the 1878 (Rev '79), 1879-S (Rev '78) and the 1880-CC (Rev '78) where 50% of the coin is the variety

greghansen

I pick one up every now and then. I like the tougher ones or ones that can be seen with the naked eye. My latest was a nice 1887/6 Morgan with obverse crescent toning. I also like some of the Peace Vam's.

kamehameha00

This may sound stupid but...what does VAM stand for?

davewang202

This is an article on Jeff's vamlink site.

Mommy, what is a VAM?

paigowjohnny

Had to have a spitting eagle !!

aem4162

not into them as of now....maybe when i win the lottery

jbsteven

I can say I do not collect VAM's but can say I look at them when I buy them for resale. Kinda neat finding them and learning about them. To me it seems most VAM's have something to do with the date and/or mintmark.

For people who buy Morgans all you have to do is look at the date and if there is doubling or it looks different then you most likely have a VAM of somekind.

CC's seems to have a few where the dates show VAM's and can sometimes be seen without a glass.

davewang202

The 1880-cc 80/79 VAM4 overdate is a popular one..... Prices on those have really climbed in the last three years. Parts of the cc-morgan movement no doubt, but perhaps even faster? I bought one in ANACS MS62 holder. I was looking for a nice 63 or 64..... at a good price.... I'm still waiting.

ccr

I`m not a big collector of VAM`s. But there are a few that I do like for the novalty.

Peaceman

Who says VAM's aren't hot...

DorkGirl

I have never bought a coin that was listed as a VAM. I lied, I did buy one, but it was for the color, not the VAM. The thrill of the hunt is fun for me though. Whenever I see someone selling an interesting VAM, I almost always check my coins to see if I have one. But usually it takes a 10X magnifing glass to see one---and that can be kind of tedious. There are so many, and I can't see paying the extra money for one myself but, each to his own. These I enjoy, I can see them without a magnifing glass------

davewang202

Partially broken r's....

Are those from the 79s Rev 78 Morgans?

DorkGirl

Davewang202, no, they are 78s's. I have 10 of these, all with varying degrees of broken r's. I went to your website and was disappointed that none of my 79s's were broken, but was fascinated by the fact that I had so many 78s's that were. Are they VAM 36's? I'd love to know!!

davewang202

I posted this in a different thread, but if you're interested, take a look at the slides I made. Baltimore SSDC 2004 slides

Basically, the "broken r" is a hub break, and the broken r was fairfully transferred to multiple dies. That's why there are so many of them, and they all look a bit different. You find them in the 1878 Morgans from philadelphia and San Franscisco, also on the 1879s Rev 78 Morgans, but not the 79s third reverse Morgans.

The fun one's are the one's on page 6, where you get a mini-serif for the partially broken r. I'm trying to find some conclusive evidence to show whether the mini-serif is an intermediate broken hub state or repunched die. Mr Van Allen and Mr Cherry believes that they are simply intermediate hub states, but Larry Briggs and I think they're (individually) repunched. The hard part is finding the "right coins" to examine and prove or disprove the theory.

coinkat

I haven't bought one in quite awhile but I was always on the hunt 3-10 years ago and I am very thankful for what I have.

dizzlecc

I don't mind picking up one now or then, especially if it is recognized by pcgs.

My issue is that it is diificult to obtain current information and pricing on them. Is the top 100 or the hot 50 the same as it was ten years ago or has the order changed.

It seems the grading services differ on this subject as some list and some you have to pay extra for. I'm waiting for a grading service to charge fees based on the grade of the coin. au58 one price and ms66 price plus.

SDCollector

I like to attribute the easy one's. If it takes more magnification than my 10x, I get frustrated and lose interest. Occasionally I'll use my 20x, but the area of view is so tiny that it's kind of a hassle.

It's a lot of fun to attribute a Top 100...something I've only done once. And I don't pay big premiums for them.

CalGold

On what basis does Mr. Oxman designate which VAMS are the top 50 or 100?

CG

Wolf359

Some combination of popularity, diversity, and rarity. The Top 100 were documented in the book by Dr. Michael Fey and the Hot 50 by Jeff Oxman. The Top 100 book was published around 1997 and the Hot 50 in 1999 or 2000.

CalGold

<< <i>Some combination of popularity, diversity, and rarity >>



Ah, but the question is what combination and how is popularity and rarity gaged? Auction records are scant. ANACS designates VAMs, but does anyone here know when they started doing so?

NGC's pop reports that exist are limited to recent NGC designation of 1878 VAMS plus the Hot 50 and Top 100. So the NGC census could not have been the basis for the original Hot 50 or Top 100. The NGC census of Hot 50 and Top 100 would seem to self perpetuate the seeming popularity of those VAMs, at the possible risk of making them appear more plentiful than others that are not designated.

PCGS does not designate VAMS. So the pop report of the largest third party service sheds no light on VAM rarity.

All in all reliable data seems rather scarce.

CG

davewang202

"Popularity" depends on what people are interested in. Some are interested in die cracks, others in overdates, and still others are interested in die clashed coins.

"True rarity", not just something that is hyped, takes a while to shake out. If you're interested you can subscribe to Mike Fey's Top 100 insights. He tracks trade history and population counts of various "top 100" coins.

Rob Joyce handed out some of the population counts for the Hot 50 and Peace dollar top 50 coins at the Baltimore SSDC meeting. If you subscribe to the VAM-E newsletter (free subscription) you can download them for free.

In order to get an idea as to what is "truly rare", you not only have to take into account of how many have been found thus far, but also how long people have been tracking them. I think Mike Fey's been tracking them for 7 or 8 years running now. If he's only tracked about 20 to 30, chances are that not many more are out there.

The information is out there, but you have to know where to look.

PCGS is behind the curve a bit. I've been sending a bunch of my coins to ANACS and NGC because they designate VAMs. I just gave 20 to ANACS to grade at the Baltimore show. I was going to give 5 to PCGS, but I ran out of time on Saturday.

Wolf359

CalGold: Dr Key and Jeff Oxman (and others I assume) determined which VAMs were the Top 100 and Hot 50. There's a
quarterly price guide published as to values based on auction and private sales.

Top 100 coins for sale on eBay

Hot 50 on eBay

You can easy search eBay's completed sales to compare.

PQpeace

After walking the floor in Baltimore looking for a few vams...it seems like it is almost like a cult following watching these guys look thru raw dollars..
Wow" is all I can say..
Most of these guys had what I wanted..but they said "not for sale"
Anyway.. not really my thing
Larry

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy

I've got the VAM bug bad. For me it is about the thrill of the hunt. Walk onto any major bourse and you will be able to buy an 1893-S Morgan. Try and buy a 1921-D VAM-1A filled die that says "TRUT" instead of "TRUST" usually you can't buy one if you wanted to. Now picture yourself digging through a junk box of 21-Ds and finding an AU for $9 for a coin that will sell for $100-$200. Can't be beat....



If interested, check out my vam site:

http://www.rjrc.com/vams

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy

ttt

lava

I think there are a lot of collectors in some of the vams, but less collectors of all of the vams. The difficult thing to grapple with, in my opinion, is that the Morgan series by comparison is already a large series -- close to 100 coins without varieties, and a lot of collectors would like to collect a variety of coins rather than just Morgans. I have the VAM Encyclopedia, and a miscroscope, and I think there are some really fascinating varieties out there. I own a bunch of mirrored vams, and am looking for a few others, but altogether there must be 2,000 or more (I'm guessing) vams with separate designation, and no, I'm not looking to buy all of them. Some are so subtle I don't know I'm looking at them even if I'm told I am, and I'm armed with book and scope.

In short, the vam series is so large, it is overwhelming. I think many collectors consider buying the vams that persoanlly interest them. For me, that list is about 100 coins, but not necessarily the "top 100."