BLASPHEMY: There is a market for PRO graded cards...
jrinck
Posts: 1,321 ✭✭
...and it isn't necessarily just to pawn off trimmed, altered, or counterfeit cards.
PRO's grading standards are obviously loose when compared to PSA. Almost all rational thought would tell you that is a good thing for PSA and those who collect cards graded by them. However, in my opinion, strictness in grading blurs the line between how a card really looks versus how perfect or imperfect it may be under intense examination. Strict grading, such as PSA's, has relegated thousands or millions of very nice looking cards to "worthless" or "undesirable" status, despite the fact that most human eyes cannot tell the difference between a PSA 7, 8, 9, or 10.
For example, someone on this board recently mentioned how 1975 Topps commons in PSA 8 condition routinely sell for less than the grading fee. For cards made AFTER 1975 it only gets worse. But a PSA 8 card is a VERY NICE LOOKING card, and to be considered worthless or undesirable simply because of an assigned grade is a very sad thing for our hobby. We're talking about a card that is probably in the exact same, very nice condition in 2004 as it was on the day it was produced in 1975, but none of that matters because it's not a PSA 9. This is akin to you thinking a woman is beautiful until you hear what Fabio thinks about her. If he says she's ugly, then you all-of-the-sudden become uninterested even though when you continue to look at her you still think she's beautiful. Who loses? You certainly do, although the same can't be said for her. She'll find someone who appreciates her despite what others may think. As for Fabio, while he certainly has experience with beautiful women, why is he more qualified to judge than you? If you like the woman, should it matter what he thinks? No. The only time you should worry about what Fabio thinks is when he tells you that beautiful woman is really a man. Then, he's helpful. Having an expert tell you something like that will save you a whole bunch of anxiety in the future.
So Fabio has his place, as does PSA, but we must be careful not to become too reliant on either him or PSA. Outfits like PRO, who, if you look beyond the grading of altered cards, seem to do a reasonably good job in at least giving an overall good feel for the eye appeal of a card, without resorting to 10x magnification and nitpicking over virtually invisible surface creases. If a card looks good from just looking at it with your unaided eyes, and it's authentic, then that's what should matter the most. 10, 9, 8, 7, it really doesn't matter. They're all good.
PRO's grading standards are obviously loose when compared to PSA. Almost all rational thought would tell you that is a good thing for PSA and those who collect cards graded by them. However, in my opinion, strictness in grading blurs the line between how a card really looks versus how perfect or imperfect it may be under intense examination. Strict grading, such as PSA's, has relegated thousands or millions of very nice looking cards to "worthless" or "undesirable" status, despite the fact that most human eyes cannot tell the difference between a PSA 7, 8, 9, or 10.
For example, someone on this board recently mentioned how 1975 Topps commons in PSA 8 condition routinely sell for less than the grading fee. For cards made AFTER 1975 it only gets worse. But a PSA 8 card is a VERY NICE LOOKING card, and to be considered worthless or undesirable simply because of an assigned grade is a very sad thing for our hobby. We're talking about a card that is probably in the exact same, very nice condition in 2004 as it was on the day it was produced in 1975, but none of that matters because it's not a PSA 9. This is akin to you thinking a woman is beautiful until you hear what Fabio thinks about her. If he says she's ugly, then you all-of-the-sudden become uninterested even though when you continue to look at her you still think she's beautiful. Who loses? You certainly do, although the same can't be said for her. She'll find someone who appreciates her despite what others may think. As for Fabio, while he certainly has experience with beautiful women, why is he more qualified to judge than you? If you like the woman, should it matter what he thinks? No. The only time you should worry about what Fabio thinks is when he tells you that beautiful woman is really a man. Then, he's helpful. Having an expert tell you something like that will save you a whole bunch of anxiety in the future.
So Fabio has his place, as does PSA, but we must be careful not to become too reliant on either him or PSA. Outfits like PRO, who, if you look beyond the grading of altered cards, seem to do a reasonably good job in at least giving an overall good feel for the eye appeal of a card, without resorting to 10x magnification and nitpicking over virtually invisible surface creases. If a card looks good from just looking at it with your unaided eyes, and it's authentic, then that's what should matter the most. 10, 9, 8, 7, it really doesn't matter. They're all good.
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Comments
Groucho Marx
my opinion
edited to fix a typo * was meant to be 8
<< <i>I think these threads should be limited to 50 words if you have nothing to say. >>
Hey, it's just an opinion! (word count, not including this parenthesised word count: 6, including "it's" as two words in order to make the word count higher without technically making it so, thereby reducing the amount of time necessary to read the post.)
Roger from 4 Sharp Corners is currently selling on Ebay 1980s minor star cards in PSA 10 for $3 with a BIN of $5. I think as modern cards continue to proliferate in graded form, more and more people will discount the "value" of modern PSA 8s (let's just say 1980 and after), and they will largely get dumped/discarded into the dollar bins....
MS
I don't know where your analogy came from, but I'm LMAO.
I'm not totally comfortable with your analogy:
1. The assessment of Beauty is Subjective and Relative in it's application.
2. The assessment of card grade is Objective and Scientific in it's application (in theory), although overall eye appeal of the card is taken into consideration.
Some unsuspecting person will buy a PRO 10 without an understanding of your relative interpretation of the beauty in card grading and eventually will be disappointed and the hobby may be out another patron (which in my opinion it can ill afford).
Just my 2 cents - hard to stay under 50 words.
Mike
Even PSA 8s of expensive modern rookies sell for significantly less than the same card does raw.
Dealer storage space is a huge part of the reason why modern PSA 8s will sell cheaply. Each PSA card takes up the space of several cards in CardSavers, and thereby means that much less inventory can be brought or stored.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
PRO and the people who submit their doctored garbage to them are dangerous to the credibility of this hobby. it's only a matter of time before some t.v. news magazine blows the lid off this scam and the feds are forced to take action.
i can't go as far as saying that people who buy PRO get what they deserve. with the growing popularity of EBAY there is a seemingly endless stream of "newbies" that will be taken advantage of.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY PRO .
If I were to start a grading company it would have a much looser grading scale that focused primarily on eye appeal versus minor imperfections that are only visible under extreme magnification, while at the same time making sure the cards aren't altered or counterfeit; and I WOULD NOT use a numeric grading scale that is in anyway similar to one already in use by any of the top-tier grading companies.
The way I look at it, people will still send to PSA first, but if they don't get the grades they expect based solely on miniscule imperfections visible at 10X magnification, then they can submit to me and I'll judge based solely on eye appeal. Prices realized on Rinck Graded cards will certainly not be on par with high-end PSA prices such as for PSA 8, 9, and 10, but hopefully more than for PSA 6 or 7, which seems to be the kiss-of-death grade for virtually any card other than vintage stars.
Why should a stunningly beautiful card be considered worthless due to a PSA 6 label that is only there because of some barely perceptible reverse surface wrinkle; and that without such wrinkle would be a PSA 9 or 10?
edited to say
the crease was across the entire center of the card and on the back too......corners were ex/mnt at best
Yankee Collector 1958-60
Retired complete 1960 Topps set