Card trimming.

elway65

You know, I've read so much on the boards lately about card trimming, I started feeling really insecure about many of my cards. So I started measuring some of them. While most of them seemed spot on, I found a few a hair (and I do mean a hair...maybe 3/16 of an inch or less off). Then I started "imagining" a trim, even when it wasn't there. But then I'd measure it again, and it "looked like it wasn't trimmed." Major head games.

My question is two fold: is the best way to measure a card by placing it side-by-side to a card you know is untrimmed or is it better just to measure with a ruler? If a card is standard size, is THERE EVER even the slightest ioda of a difference in a cards measurement (meaning: one card to another could possibly vary be minute degrees)? There are printing defects, is it naive of me to think that a card could come off the press and not be precisely EXACT to the next card that rolls off (speaking old cards here)?

Mantlefan

Marc...unfortunately, card size can vary. Topps' production techniques were not all that precise and all cards of the same year do not always measure the same. Checking the contour of an edge is better way to test for trimming.

elway65

what specifically would you look for on the contour of the edge that might indicate a card has been trimmed?


Thank you. I feel better. A little. Okay, just a bit.

WinPitcher

Mantle fan is correct I noticed that especially in the 61 topps set. i think the yearly beckett in its description of each set even stated that cards approximate size.....etc

Virtualizard

If you have a card that measures up 3/16" less than the standard, your card is most definitely trimmed - that's a huge difference when you're talking card sizes. I use calipers to measure cards and I have done some experiments in the past comparing PSA graded cards that I owned from one specific "volume submitter" to PSA with cards from my own submissions as well as other sources. I have only come across 1 PSA graded card that I thought was questionable - it was about 3/64" short both ways and it was noticeably small. In this experiment, I sampled 27 PSA graded cards from the 1969 Topps Baseball set - all graded PSA 8 or 9. For the most part, every card measured within 1/64" of the specified 2½" x 3½", many were dead on. I know that this is a small sample from one specific set, but regular Topps issues shouldn't vary by much. I'd be worried about 3/16".

JEB.

elway65

Thanks everyone! 3/16" off is probably trimmed...roger that. Thankfully, the few that fell perilously into that range aren't big dollar cards. Still alarming nevertheless. Appreciate the help.

WinPitcher

sandlot411

purelyPSA

Easiest way to teach yourself something about spotting trimming? Get some worthless commons and cut them to shreds with a variety of tools. Then compare the newly sliced edge to the 4 edges that are on there now and look or differences. While I can't say I've become a complete expert on the subject, it's helped me when I come across a short card, to be able to at least know what to look for that's fishy.

iamthegreatcornholio

This is a bit off the subject, but how can grading companies tell the difference between a factory cut card and a card that someone has cut from a sheet. I know that some years are "rough" cuts, but others look normal. These are the ones I am talking about how to distinguish from factory vs sheet cut.
Brian

iamthegreatcornholio

sorry to steal your picture mantlefan

34GoudeyCollector

This has been a major concern of mine also. I recently picked up a fairly expensive lot of 34 Goudey's and submitted them to PSA. 3 of them came back as ALTERED (evidence of trimming). I compared these to others that graded fine, and they were just a little bit (about 1/16th of an inch) shorter than the others, except a couple, and they were the same size. To accurately judge if a card is trimmed is a coin toss for me. I have recently changed my buying process to only purchasing the 34's already PSA graded. Although I felt that I could put together my set cheaper by buying them raw and having them graded, I learned a lesson on this one. From now on, I will buy graded only to eliviate the "unknown".

Ken

sandlot411

trimmed cards have been graded by every grading company..So noone really knows.

elway65

fellow night owls: would it be unusual to find, or suspect, a trimmed card if that card is already pretty off center? I guess so considering, trimming can do one of two things: improve centering, or make corners or edges sharper. I may have just answered my own question. Lack of sleep will do that to you.

norty

elway65:

Comparative sizing is not a consistently good approach to detecting trims. There are legitimate size variances in many many issues. Some can result from the issuance of vending box cards (cut shorter), presentation sets (cut much shorter), variances in cut through factory processes (see the 52 Bowman large football set and many pre-war and tobacco issues). Measuring cards against cards in a holder is a waste of time.

If you don't have a loupe, buy one of at least 10X magnification. Examine the grain of the card looking for consistency of cut. When cards were guillotine cut, the blade would leave a rough, pitted grain as the blade edge (through use), developed imperfections. If there are sides with a pitted look and one or two with a smooth cut, you've got a problem. If the whole card has a very smooth consistent cut in the grain, it may well be from a vending box or presentation set.

Look too at the card borders. Are there low spots followed by up by high spots? It could be trimmed in the low areas.

Putty

34 goudey, I know that as we speak there is a great inconsistency with that particular set. There was a previous thread by Gosoxbosox, who had a really bad experience with this. He had a few 34 Goudeys already PSA graded 5's and he thought they should be 6's. He cracked them out and resubmitted them. Quite a few came back trimmed. It is also my understanding he is awaiting clarification on this issue from Joe Orlando. The real shame of it, all is that this is a awesome set, I have a few myself and would someday love to complete it.

I personally will only purchase graded cards from this set, it is just a financial reality that I cannot afford to purchase cards of this magnitude and then have then come back trimmed and therefore without much value. Also I agree with Sandlot411, each and every company has graded trimmed cards, none are perfect. While I still believe that PSA is by far the most reliable, it is of little comfort to me anymore as I am starting to feel like they are the simply the best of the worst. For my money I will stick with PSA, however I just wish they had some stronger competition, another company that could really push PSA in the marketplace.

ZodiacMindwarp

What is the proper thing to do with a trimmed card?

Throw it out?

Bury it in the middle of a 5000 count box?

Sell it with the notification that is trimmed? Someone might use it as a filler but someone might re-sell it to an unsuspecting buyer.

I think that there was a thread about this a while back but I can't remember the general consensus.

I bought a Yaz rookie that turned out to be trimmed from a eBayer who is no longer a registered user but I can't bear to destroy it. Any suggestions?

mrc32

<< <i>What is the proper thing to do with a trimmed card? >>



Good question.

I have bought only 2 raw cards for my T-205 set that have been trimmed, though I have seen more than I care to remember appear on ebay,

I gave my first trimmed card away to a collector that wanted it. I had to get it out of my house as I felt like my mistake was constantly staring me in the face.

The second trimmed is sitting right here. I ain't figured out what to do with it yet.....but it won't be around for long.

I don't like keeping them and would never sell them as trimmed....

34GoudeyCollector

Putty,
WOW....Didn't hear anything about this. Thanks for the info and hope everything works out for Tom. Very good info!

Ken

elway65

Norty:

Thank you for the advice. I'm purchasing a 10x focusing standing loupe as we speak.


Wow, I didn't know vending was a little smaller than regular cards. Consistently smaller?

norty

elway65:

Yes vending cards are consistently smaller and have consistently different cuts from the cards regularly issued .

Wabittwax

My suggestion as what to do with trimmed cards is to throw them away if they are cheap cards or have PSA slab them them as "Authentic" if they are expensive cards. It's good to get bad cards out of circulation but nobody wants to throw away a Hank Aaron RC. That would be the best way to resell it, IMO.