Researching mint records . . . did I find a new reverse??? Pics added . . .

DMWJR

I need some advice about getting information on mint records. I have a 1956 coin which appears to have a strangely different reverse than normal p mint state reverse on a Washington Quarter. It is not a proof reverse either. The odd thing is that this one is strongly similar to a new reverse that was introduced in 1965, nine years later. This is the "C" reverse, but I would be shocked to find it on a 56. I do have it on a 63, and a 64. I do know the exact difference for the three reverses: A, B & C.

How would I best go about looking for mint records that would show redesigning of dies, die trials, and things of that sort? I have never done anything like that before.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

relayer

Perhaps a picture?

cladking

Here's something DHeath dug up sometime back.nullLINK

There are some strange things that go on with Washington reverses.

DHeath

Doug,

You need to call one of the archivists, but I doubt that'll do you much good. Most if not all of the records that would have pertinent info were discarded or destroyed by Mint Director Stella Hackel-Sims
(November 1977 - April 1988). In 1978, she decided there were too many records to store, so she ordered them destroyed. Hackel seems to have destroyed most of the working mint
records from 1900 through at least 1960 and perhaps as late as 1970. When asked about it later, she had no recollection. Quoting R.W.Julian from an E-sylum article, "Eva Adams also destroyed records but not to as great an extent. One record that she trashed, for example, was a die record book which listed every die made from 1844 to 1925. Her assistant, speaking for her, said that collectors had no
legitimate interest in such matters and that I must be a front for a counterfeiting gang."

Quoting the same article,

"Perhaps the most important article to be published in Coin
World in the last 20 years was titled: "Dealer retrieves 700
volumes of Treasury records," by William T. Gibbs. The
article appeared in the May 18, 1983 issue, and reports on
the purchase of important historical documents by coin
dealers from a scrap paper dealer who had been contracted
by the Treasury Department to recycle the records.

I have not seen any information on this subject in many years,
except for that which just appeared in your e-journal."

Michael Schmidt, commenting on the Coin World article,
adds: "To the best of my recollection the story went that the
Mint sent a large number of old records and correspondence
files to the landfill. At the landfill they were found and diverted
to a paper recycler. The recycler recognized the documents
as being valuable and potentially having historical significance.
(It was probably the correspondence files that tipped him off,
letters signed by people such as George Washington, John
Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc.) The paper recycler took the
records to a coin dealer who bought them.

When the dealer traced the records back to their source, the
government tried to force the dealer to give the records back.
It was determined though that he held good title to the records
since the governments claim was relinquished when they sent
the records to the landfill for disposal. The final outcome was
the dealer got to keep the records and the government issued
new directives that all records were to be shredded before
being sent to the landfill."

I understand Julian Liedman knows the whereabouts of volumes of copies of mint correspondence. Perhaps he could be of some assistance. I would still begin by speaking with an archivist at NARA. They can help you isolate where any likely records are warehoused, and from there, perhaps a trip is in order. Good luck.

DMWJR

That is a very interesting link! Thanks!

I'm working on pulling some pictures together so you can see this very interesting reverse.

JadeRareCoin

So, Stella Hackel-Sims and Eva Adams are real friends of coin collectors, aren't they?

Get a rope!

cladking

Most years in the 1970's showed at least minor changes to the reverse of the quarter and several involved
extensive modifications. Many dates were struck with as many as three different reverses, though in most
cases the the examples which aren't common are either scarce or rare. There were two reverses used for
each of the dates between '77 and '84. There are also different types used through-out much of the 1960's,
Including four different for the 1964 and one of these appearing on a clad planchet!

DMWJR

OK, here are some pics. I'll try to post the relavant pics from the A&B reverses later so you can see the difference I am talking about.

kranky

Looks like the B reverse to me, based on what I read in Feigenbaum's book.

DMWJR

Thanks Kranky, that's what I thought at first too. However, there are some differences with the B reverse. I'm trying to get those pics up as soon as I can. It actually looks more like the "C" reverse than the "B" reverse, which would be shocking to find on a 1956 coin. I have copies of all known years 56-64 with the "B" reverse, as well as the transitional 64-D reverse. I also have a 63 and a 64 philly mint quarter with the "C" reverse, although it wasn't officially used until 1965. Finding this on a 56 coin has my mind blown.

DMWJR

Here is a pic of a normal "B" reverse. Notice the lower leaf next to the stem.



Now, here is a pic of the 1956 I am talking about. The leaf is not there, just like on the "C" reverses used in 1965, and on a rare number of 63's and 64's.

Russ

Doug,

Could not the absence of the leaf result from a filled die?

Russ, NCNE

DMWJR

Russ, I thought about that, but this reverse matches the "C" reverse perfectly. Also notice the position of the stem relative to the "T" in quarter.