Comments on my Baltimore trip!
jdimmick
Posts: 9,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
I went down to the show early Friday morning, prior to opening. Since I did not have an early bird badge, I had to wait till 10:00am to get to the bourse floor. So I took the opportunity to view some of the lots in the B @ M sale. I had an hour, so I went back through the catalog a looked at several others coins in addition to the ones I had bids placed on. This was actually the first time I had ever sat down an viewed a bunch of coins in a large type auction sale as this one. I can say it was a learning experience to say the least, and made me a very cautious buyer for future auctions where I dont have acces to view the coins prior to bidding. I saw so many coins that were mediocre or were of subpar quality. Many were overgraded including several dogs. There were some very nice coins in the sale as well, but you definitley need to be able to view prior to bidding or have your dealer or someone view for you. There was one 32-d washington in the sale that I had a dealer freind look at a few days prior, and was told that it was nice. I took the time to view it myself and also thought the same. It was lightly toned, but extremely solid for the 64 grade. I had always preferred White washingtons, so I couldnt make up my mind then whether to up my bid prior to the auction or wait. I decided to pass uping my bid as that would have pretty much wiped out my funds for this trip and was afraid that I would see something on the floor that I wanted even more.
By then it was 10:00am and I entered the bourse, I had mapped out the area to start in by knowing which dealers would most likely carry the type's of coins that I was looking for. As I walked around from table to table, I observed a lot of buying going on, and I believe this was confirmed by the number of coins that I saw setting turned over in the back of cases that were just sold waiting on transactions to be completed. Many of the nicer items in the show (in the affordable range $100-$7k) were purchased within the first two hours after the show opened or even the day before from dealer to dealer transactions. After going to this show, I truly believe that many of the top quality pieces in this price range get bought up before the general public has a chance to enter. As you get up in price, this tends to be less of a problem as I still saw some really nice coins in the high end range 15K and up after a second pass around.
There were some really nice PCGS 89-cc Morgans at the show in MS-63(29,000), Ms-64 and 64DMPL. Saw some very nice 86-o's and 92-s as well. I had my eye out for any 32-d washington quarters in PCGS-64, and saw two, both IMO were no where near the quality of the bowers auction coin. In fact one looked like it should reside in a 3 holder. I did see one ms-65 at 30k that I thought should have been an Ms-64 at best. 26-s buffalo nickels were abvailable in lower grades and saw one in NGC-55 and one in ANACS-61, both okay, but not the quality that fits my taste. I saw at least 35 1916 SLQ in all grades from G thru Ms-66FH. Some were decent, some were not. Prices were extremely high on most items. I have never been afraid to pay high prices for the right coins, extreme quality for the grade is worth the extra money IMO. I have always come out ahead in the long run. But, what bugged me the most about this show and several in the past is that, many coins that were thier, in that price range I mentioned earlier were priced high, but yet were only marginal in quality at best. It looked like many dealers were trying to capitalize on the " Hot Market" and pricing accordingly forgetting about what the coin they were offering looked like, yet when buying from others were pointing out the imperfections and such and even attempting to downgrade what the public was offering. (I cant comment to much on dealers buying prices as I didnt not bring anything to sale, this comment was merely based on what I overheard and saw taking place around me).
I did see some nice early copper and several pattern dealers. Saw a few nice selcetion of early gold, and a few seated coins but didnt get prices on other items. Sorry for those intrested, but didnt have time for general looking, as I had to fly back home later that afternoon.
We have all commented on this board about the obvious overgrading at times by the grading services of several coins and the number of coins being re-submitted numerous times to maximize the grades. You can really see what affect this has done to the overall quality of coins on the market in holders at a show of this size. There are so many coins on the bourse floor that are just not of the quality for the grade you saw even 5 years ago. I have several key-dates in my collection that have been holderd between 5-8 years ago and the quality is so much nicer than the coin in the same grade today. In fact, after attending this show, I think I could upgrade three coins easily by one grade increment. I am not planning on selling them, so I dont, just more evidence to me that their is an overall difference in grading today than in the past.
Some of the other board members mentioned that some of the dealers were rude and unewilling to discuss things, I have to say that I did not find this to be true. Everyone I stopped and talked with seemed to be very helpful and willing to converse briefly. I even asked to view a few coins that I couldnt have possibly afforded like the 1916-d merc PCGS-67Fb for 110k, and the dealers were very happy to show it and discuss it. I found this true at most of the other tables as well.
Last thing, it was getting time for me to sit down and take my turn at the PCGS grading. I have to say, I thought I would get a little nervous about it, but after setting down an starting, It didnt bother me at all. In fact it was really fun. It was the best $50.00 I ever spent. I dont know how I did, nor do I care. It was just fun. Though, It will be intresting to see how I did, and hope that they furnish the actuall grade and your grade to compare. If anything, I think I may have graded a little tighter than PCGS standards, just hope I was able to identify the AT, and cleaned coins, which I think I did.
Saw a few folks, met Wayne Herndon and Tootawl. Overall, I had a good time.
Oh one last thing, about that 32-d washington in the B @ M sale. I was upset that I didnt go back and up my bid after not seeing any on the floor I liked, so I called over to the auction room at the Marriot and was able to get hold of someone. I was on the phone with about 30 lots to go and the darn cell phone lost connection. Probably from being in the basement on the show floor. I called back and left a message with a bid, and hoped it got thru. Didnt find out till this morning, but unfortunately the bid still wasnt high enough as it sold for 8,900. Quite a strong price, but this was a very nice high end 64 and several others must have thought so as well.
jim d
By then it was 10:00am and I entered the bourse, I had mapped out the area to start in by knowing which dealers would most likely carry the type's of coins that I was looking for. As I walked around from table to table, I observed a lot of buying going on, and I believe this was confirmed by the number of coins that I saw setting turned over in the back of cases that were just sold waiting on transactions to be completed. Many of the nicer items in the show (in the affordable range $100-$7k) were purchased within the first two hours after the show opened or even the day before from dealer to dealer transactions. After going to this show, I truly believe that many of the top quality pieces in this price range get bought up before the general public has a chance to enter. As you get up in price, this tends to be less of a problem as I still saw some really nice coins in the high end range 15K and up after a second pass around.
There were some really nice PCGS 89-cc Morgans at the show in MS-63(29,000), Ms-64 and 64DMPL. Saw some very nice 86-o's and 92-s as well. I had my eye out for any 32-d washington quarters in PCGS-64, and saw two, both IMO were no where near the quality of the bowers auction coin. In fact one looked like it should reside in a 3 holder. I did see one ms-65 at 30k that I thought should have been an Ms-64 at best. 26-s buffalo nickels were abvailable in lower grades and saw one in NGC-55 and one in ANACS-61, both okay, but not the quality that fits my taste. I saw at least 35 1916 SLQ in all grades from G thru Ms-66FH. Some were decent, some were not. Prices were extremely high on most items. I have never been afraid to pay high prices for the right coins, extreme quality for the grade is worth the extra money IMO. I have always come out ahead in the long run. But, what bugged me the most about this show and several in the past is that, many coins that were thier, in that price range I mentioned earlier were priced high, but yet were only marginal in quality at best. It looked like many dealers were trying to capitalize on the " Hot Market" and pricing accordingly forgetting about what the coin they were offering looked like, yet when buying from others were pointing out the imperfections and such and even attempting to downgrade what the public was offering. (I cant comment to much on dealers buying prices as I didnt not bring anything to sale, this comment was merely based on what I overheard and saw taking place around me).
I did see some nice early copper and several pattern dealers. Saw a few nice selcetion of early gold, and a few seated coins but didnt get prices on other items. Sorry for those intrested, but didnt have time for general looking, as I had to fly back home later that afternoon.
We have all commented on this board about the obvious overgrading at times by the grading services of several coins and the number of coins being re-submitted numerous times to maximize the grades. You can really see what affect this has done to the overall quality of coins on the market in holders at a show of this size. There are so many coins on the bourse floor that are just not of the quality for the grade you saw even 5 years ago. I have several key-dates in my collection that have been holderd between 5-8 years ago and the quality is so much nicer than the coin in the same grade today. In fact, after attending this show, I think I could upgrade three coins easily by one grade increment. I am not planning on selling them, so I dont, just more evidence to me that their is an overall difference in grading today than in the past.
Some of the other board members mentioned that some of the dealers were rude and unewilling to discuss things, I have to say that I did not find this to be true. Everyone I stopped and talked with seemed to be very helpful and willing to converse briefly. I even asked to view a few coins that I couldnt have possibly afforded like the 1916-d merc PCGS-67Fb for 110k, and the dealers were very happy to show it and discuss it. I found this true at most of the other tables as well.
Last thing, it was getting time for me to sit down and take my turn at the PCGS grading. I have to say, I thought I would get a little nervous about it, but after setting down an starting, It didnt bother me at all. In fact it was really fun. It was the best $50.00 I ever spent. I dont know how I did, nor do I care. It was just fun. Though, It will be intresting to see how I did, and hope that they furnish the actuall grade and your grade to compare. If anything, I think I may have graded a little tighter than PCGS standards, just hope I was able to identify the AT, and cleaned coins, which I think I did.
Saw a few folks, met Wayne Herndon and Tootawl. Overall, I had a good time.
Oh one last thing, about that 32-d washington in the B @ M sale. I was upset that I didnt go back and up my bid after not seeing any on the floor I liked, so I called over to the auction room at the Marriot and was able to get hold of someone. I was on the phone with about 30 lots to go and the darn cell phone lost connection. Probably from being in the basement on the show floor. I called back and left a message with a bid, and hoped it got thru. Didnt find out till this morning, but unfortunately the bid still wasnt high enough as it sold for 8,900. Quite a strong price, but this was a very nice high end 64 and several others must have thought so as well.
jim d
0
Comments
Dennis
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One of the best posts I have ever read on a show.
Now, I should check my bids on the B&M page.
Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
My experiences with slabbed auction lots the last 2 years mirrors our experience here. And it gets WORSE every year. I'll go through 800 slabbed auction lots and out of those find maybe 30-50 pieces worthy of consideration that are very solid or choice for the grade.
Of those 50 pieces, maybe 10-15 are decidedly high end. The dogs outnumber the nice ones by 10 to 1. And from the auction descriptions alone, you really cannot tell which are which. Bidding by internet certainly has its risks.
roadrunner
Some of the other board members mentioned that some of the dealers were rude and unewilling to discuss things, I have to say that I did not find this to be true. Everyone I stopped and talked with seemed to be very helpful and willing to converse briefly. I even asked to view a few coins that I couldnt have possibly afforded like the 1916-d merc PCGS-67Fb for 110k, and the dealers were very happy to show it and discuss it. I found this true at most of the other tables as well.
One of the coolest things to do at the "big show" is to get to hold the fantasy coins. At FUN, I held at least three coins that ended up selling for $200,000 or more (54-S $2.50, 70-CC $20, and 54-O $20) and too many to count that sold for over $50,000.
My experiences with slabbed auction lots the last 2 years mirrors our experience here. And it gets WORSE every year. I'll go through 800 slabbed auction lots and out of those find maybe 30-50 pieces worthy of consideration that are very solid or choice for the grade.
The big auctions have become minefields in which you are more likely to get blown up than blown away. Having reviewed just about all of the rare date gold coins in the Heritage FUN auction, I would be extremely cautious about making a bid for a coin without viewing it myself or having it studied by a trusted representative. In fact, I assume that all coins are low-end for the grade or one grade lower than the slab indicates.
Many of the nicer items in the show (in the affordable range $100-$7k) were purchased within the first two hours after the show opened or even the day before from dealer to dealer transactions. After going to this show, I truly believe that many of the top quality pieces in this price range get bought up before the general public has a chance to enter.
Buying coins from the bourse has become an extremely low yield proposition for me.
Thank you again for the excellent report and for stimulating discussion on a variety of noteworthy topics.
Rainbow Stars
It is a lot of fun to go to the big shows and hold fantasy coins or meet the big dealers, have a book autographed, etc.
One thing about cruising big show's bourse floor, though: If you're looking for something a bit less popular, you can often find it in the corner of someone's display case for less than you might normally pay. IMHO, dealers bring everything they can to the bigger shows and if they don't sell it to another dealer before the show, they'll want to get rid of it because they don't want to bring it home!
I'm sorry I couldn't go to Baltimore this time.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Makes me feel like a kid in a candy store.