I am livid!-UPDATE-Heard from Seller
ealandg
Posts: 705
I bought a raw coin on Ebay (I guess I'm an idiot) and it is SEVERELY damaged and bent, which was not in the listing. I e-mailed the seller and said I wanted a refund, but I have a bad feeling about this one...
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Comments
Tom
Crappy Coin Link
Tom
Tom
rob.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
This reverse looked like it wasn't too bad, and the obverse sounded OK, so I thought I'd take it. It does look like this guy has given refunds previously, so it might not be too bad and it isn't like I was paying big $ for it. I just hate the idea of being lied to, even if it is by omission and deceptive photography.
Other than showing the reverse only on this coin nothing is suspect.
The word FILLER means worn worn worn......damaged damaged damaged. Don't beat yourself up on this one ealandg. My own philosophy on ebay is never buy raw.
In any event the FB rating indicates this guy has some integrity. If you get BS from him tell him you have multiple members of the forum who will be happy to take a neg for you and lower this guy's FB rating. Sign me up. They don't call it Sleeze-bay for nutin.
roadrunner
RR
RR
RR
I didn't figure I would challenge them, as I really just want my money back. I said that I was sorry to cause them inconvenience and that I would be returning it. I also told them that I'm a member of this forum and that I was telling folks about this situation and would let everyone know that the dealer is saying they will provide a refund.
The whole thing is just really kind of embarrasing. I was really mad when I first saw the coin. Now I just feel silly for buying a raw coin with no picture of the obv. What a rookie maneuver! Oh well...
By the way - Roadrunner, I appreciate the support.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
RIPOFF! coin was a cull due to undisclosed damage partial refund only Buyer cmbdii( 45) Feb-23-04 12:10 2223360454
Reply by 55nomadcoin: We gave him a full refund for the coin he returned why a neg? Feb-24-04 04:13
Roll was mostly F 40's No way this was collected by a banker in the 50s Buyer cmbdii( 45) Feb-23-04 12:07 2223456944
Reply by 55nomadcoin: Left a Neg for no reason VERY RUDE he has a very poor record Beware of him
there's more, just didn't copy/paste
The sad thing is that I have been collecting for over 6 years and have bought stuff on Ebay before that didn't meet my expectations. I was lazy.
Bottom line on this is you are now doing the CORRECT thing.
Much better than just swallowing the $50 and having the coin hanging around, annoying you the rest of your God-given life. I have a few of those myself!
Don't be so hard on yourself --- like I said, good move.
Dave
<< <i>Ok I hate liars!
Crappy Coin Link >>
I don't see where he lied in the description. Filler means a coin that is heavily worn, damaged, or both.
Good luck in your collecting!
It should have been listed as a cull.
Again, I see nothing the buyer did wrong except to hold the seller to his description. If someone can direct me to a standard reference guide that lists "FILLER" as a damaged or cull please educate me.
And to be honest, I have OFTEN given out more money to sellers when I got a coin that was better than what I expected. This is part of trying to garner repeat business with people. This does happen in the real world but unfortunately not too often on the dealer side. At work I gave a contractor an extra $2000 on a small job
last month because they underbid it somewhat and did a great job. But you guys are right about one thing, I have NEVER had a contractor give me money back at work because they MADE TOO MUCH on the job. But I have gone after those who cut corners on quality and I got some money back. Integrity, honesty, adhering to one's word (spoken or written) used to mean something. It clearly doesn't today. It doesn't matter if it's $46 or $46,000. And please don't lecture on the we should know better to trust anything on ebay. While that is true, the seller is still obligated to hold up his word no matter how crappy his rep or his FB. Personally, I buy only slabbed coins from sellers who appear trustworth with good FB and have good photos. Due diligence.
roadrunner
<< <i>I see this as a buyer wanting everyone to be on his side when he is the one that screwed up. You got exactly what was advertised. What more would you really expect? Ebay is NOT a store. Its an auction. Learn by your mistakes in life. Don't always expect everyone else to help you out of your self-made mess. Just my opinion on this and similar stories I've read here lately.....Ken >>
Well spoken.
<< <i>I think you guys are all Full of HOT AIR. Filler doesn't mean damaged and never has. Filler to me means sub-Fair/Poor and all due to wear. The word you guys mean is CULL. Plain and simple.
It should have been listed as a cull.
Again, I see nothing the buyer did wrong except to hold the seller to his description. If someone can direct me to a standard reference guide that lists "FILLER" as a damaged or cull please educate me. >>
Here are a couple of numismatic links that define filler.
link1 says it meand low grade or damaged
link2 filler and cull used interchangably
I couldn't find anything at ANA, PCGS, or NGC defining filler. So, at the very least, there's a significant part of the collecting community that understands filler to mean damaged.
Here's my take on the terms cull, filler, and fair.
Fair means heavily worn only, cull means damaged and can be any grade wear-wise. Filler means heavily worn, damaged, or both. A filler is just that, a coin to fill a space until a better one comes along. The buyer got exactly what was advertised.
link3 terms used interchangablylink3 terms are used interchangably
It still comes down to a judgement call as not all filler coins are damaged. Filler should be removed from the terminology as what kind of grade is "waiting for another coin?" For my collection, an MS64 or MS65 could be a filler. For some guy doing pop top Roosies a filler might be MS67 FB. TDN sells off MS63 and 64 seated dollars as fillers.
I see your point and more caution was warranted here. I still don't agree that the buyer got what he asked for because he didn't. It comes down to what does "IS" mean?
My comments about today's ethics still stand however. Send me a coin that you think is better than I asked for, and I'll give you extra money.
Good research and at least 2 of us here learned something new.
Less filler...tastes great....less filler....tastes great.
roadrunner
<< <i>Donovan, thanks for your research. I checked PCGS too and even though they have PO-1 for POOR, it doesn't mean damaged.
It still comes down to a judgement call as not all filler coins are damaged. Filler should be removed from the terminology as what kind of grade is "waiting for another coin?" For my collection, an MS64 or MS65 could be a filler. For some guy doing pop top Roosies a filler might be MS67 FB. TDN sells off MS63 and 64 seated dollars as fillers.
I see your point and more caution was warranted here. I still don't agree that the buyer got what he asked for because he didn't. It comes down to what does "IS" mean?
My comments about today's ethics still stand however. Send me a coin that you think is better than I asked for, and I'll give you extra money.
Good research and at least 2 of us here learned something new.
Less filler...tastes great....less filler....tastes great.
roadrunner >>
Thanks and I agree that filler is somewhat subjective, just as "average circulated" is subjective. Most numismatists, IMHO, know average circulated means AG-G and I also believe most understand filler to mean heavily worn or damaged. I still don't believe the seller was dishonest. I just think the buyer didn't understand the term, which I don't think is the seller's fault. I think the larger lesson is: Always ask questions if you aren't sure.