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Is this what is considered to be a "rattler"

image

I hear references to PCGS "rattlers".

This one rattles - what type of slab is this considered to be?

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."

Comments

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You got it!
  • JohnZJohnZ Posts: 1,732
    Shake rattle and roll.

    How do think Miss Liberty got lyin' on her back?

    We ARE watching you.

    image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    That's a first generation rattler. These days, you have to point it out with all the people calling fourth generation green labels "old holder".
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    so this is considered to be an older holder?

    It has a green pcgs label on the back and the insert is on green perforated paper which looks to have been printed on a dot matrix printer.

    When would this have been slabbed?
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • JohnZJohnZ Posts: 1,732
    Condor's your man.

    Nice coin, BTW!

    We ARE watching you.

    image
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭


    << <i>Nice coin, BTW! >>



    with all th hub-bub about posting coins with questionable motives, I couldn't in good faith tell you it is for sale, you would have to go to this thread on the b/s/t board to find that out. image
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • So what prevents the rattling today? How do they secure the coins in the holder?
    John
    Check out my coin site
    myurl
  • JohnZJohnZ Posts: 1,732
    So what prevents the rattling today? How do they secure the coins in the holder?

    Why, Krazyglue of course!

    We ARE watching you.

    image
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    hmmmmm....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭


    << <i>hmmmmm.... >>



    lucy lusting my surgeon's quality fingers again. image
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Forget it my little deviless, you have been scooped!
  • JohnZJohnZ Posts: 1,732
    lucy lusting my surgeon's quality fingers again.

    image

    We ARE watching you.

    image
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    this internet is a wonderful thing - that coin has a new home. image
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    When would this have been slabbed?

    About February, 1986 to about August, 1989.
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭
    Keep in mind that this was also the slab that was COUNTERFIETED! image
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭
    Show us the back label and we'll tell you whether or not it's authentic.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I feel left out in that my "rattler" doesn't rattle.image
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>Show us the back label and we'll tell you whether or not it's authentic. >>



    Don't need to see the back of it.

    According to the PCGS Certification Database, certification number 01270011 is defined as the following:

    COIN INFORMATION
    Date, mintmark: 1884-CC
    Denomination: S$1
    Variety: N/A
    Country: USA
    Grade: MS64



  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Eric

    not to be a fly in the ointment, but if the counterfieter was smart, he'd have used already existing cert. numbers. as a matter of fact, that's what was done. the only certain way that i know to tell the genuine from the fake is in the size/thickness of the raised holder where the two halves join.

    al h.image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    The two I have come across over the years have had bogus certification numbers.

    In this case, it was being sold be a regular here. I don't think he would sell a bogus slab, and the coin looks good to me. Good enough to put my money where my mouth is, I bought it.
  • These days they use soft (plastic?) inserts of different sizes to keep the coins from rattling.

    image
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey jhuberdude

    the coin that Frank is holding is just two halves of a shell with the central hole for each individual size coin.

    the succeeding holders have a similar shell that's joined together, but they also have a pliable inner ring sized to the coin which holds it much tighter. it's a better idea and probably easier for the sealer.

    al h.image
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey Eric

    you have to consider that they were made by criminals and like i said, if the counterfieter was smart...........image

    al h.image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Carl, thanks for posting that picture. I honestly have never busted a PCGS slab, nice to see what's inside.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    That's the thing keets, most criminals are pretty dumb. You know, like the guy who robbed a bank and wrote out the demand note on the back of his electric bill.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,530 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep, that's a "rattler", alright.





    image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭


    << <i>In this case, it was being sold be a regular here. I don't think he would sell a bogus slab, and the coin looks good to me. Good enough to put my money where my mouth is, I bought it. >>



    I have no indication to lead me to believe it is not genuine. However, if Eric determines the slab is a "fugazy", I will gladly refund his money and the cost of insured shipping back to me.

    Of course, there is a really nice coin in that slab, and Eric has a keen enough eye to appreciate the coin, as well as the slab.

    Nonetheless, if it isn't genuine, the refund window is open.
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    I really don't believe it is a bogus slab Frank, most of the bogus slabs were used to sell altered key dates.

    By the way, the MO is on the way.
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    more shots of surgeon's quality tools

    image

    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    more eye candy for Lucy

    image
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536
    It's genuine. Reverse label matches the genuine. The easiest, arms length way to tell the genuine from the fake is the back label.
    The key is the position of the I in service below the word grading above it.

    This is a genuine label. The I in Service is just left of center below the DI in GRADING. Also the serifs of the letters are at a 45 degree angle.

    image


    This is a fake label. On this one the I is below the inner curve of the D in GRADING. Well left of where itis on the genuine label. The letter serifs are also vertical instead of angled, but this can be hard to see. I I is easily visible at arms length.

    image

    K6AZ, If you run into another fake slab PLEASE let me know. I am eager to acquire one.
  • SarasotaFrankSarasotaFrank Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
    Thanks Condor.

    This is amazing to me. In my business, I do and witness being done a lot of work to "match" type. There are thousands of typefaces, and I have had art directors on my staff who could spot subtle differences a mile away. Hell, I can even do a credible job myself.

    Those two labels are so far apart, the laziest-azzed counterfieter in the western world had to make those phony labels.

    I guess the difference really is in the details.
    "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Conder, the last one I ran across was five years ago. It was a 1944-D Lincoln cent that was altered to 1914-D. This coin was given to a dealer who destroyed it.

    The other one I had was one that was given to me by a dealer about ten years ago. It was a 1895-S Morgan that had the mintmark removed, and was in the counterfeit holder as an 1895 AU50. I traded this to a friend for it's true value, who subsequently cracked the coin out, and sent the bogus slab pieces and label to PCGS.

    If I do run across another one, I'll let you know. They do still turn up occasionally when older holdings are sold.
  • bearcavebearcave Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread made me check my rattlers. Thanks Conder for showing the difference. Mine looks like your correct one pictured.
    Ken
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great info guys. Keep it up.

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • TrooperTrooper Posts: 1,450
    Besides the "Regency" slabs and all sample slabs, are any PCGS slabs considered rare? Are there many 1st. generation holders out there ect..?

    I do have a "rattler" holding an Ike and it is antique looking compared to the new holders.

    Tom
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
    GREAT thread, gentlemen. I learn something new every day. Now...I gotta go study my rattlers.image
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
  • CarlWohlforth- Thanks for the photos. Now I understand what goes inside the holder. I have asked this question before and got little info, but in your case, the pictures are worth a thousand words.
    Thanks again, John
    Check out my coin site
    myurl

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