Would someone please BUY this DMPL MONSTER now so that I can stop drooling all over my monitor?!!!!

SeattleSlammer

Man, if I hadn't just paid off the credit card I swear I would have hit BUT IT NOW already!

WOW!

Link

SeattleSlammer

And for the record, for a coin of that calibur, I think the price is very fair. I collect DMPL's and cameos, and you just don't see them like this hardly ever.....

K6AZ

But the problem is ANACS will slab those even if they have been enhanced. I have several PCGS bodybags for altered surfaces to prove it.

LucyBop

I think its very nice.

braddick

<< <i>But the problem is ANACS will slab those even if they have been enhanced. I have several PCGS bodybags for altered surfaces to prove it. >>

That may be so but your second line of defense is the Seller himself and he is a well respected, knowledgeable Morgan Collector/Dealer. He wouldn't be offering this one if he believed there was even a hint this Morgan isn't "right".

ADDED:
Same line of reasoning holds true to you, K6AZ: If you were offering a Morgan I'd know the coin is as represented on the label or you wouldn't be offering it. True?

K6AZ

Pat, I don't know who is offering this coin, I didn't go to the trouble to find out. I just know that I have never had an ANACS PL or DMPL cross at PCGS, and I don't cross slabs, I bust them out and submit them raw.

K6AZ

Well, I just looked at the link and I see it is one of our old favorites here selling it. Good luck to him, but as I said in my previous post, I've had enough experience with ANACS DMPLs to tell me not to go near another one.

No offense to Kyle, but PCGS is absolutely stringent with these, and in the current market, if they aren't in PCGS slabs, they go for a fraction of greysheet.

matto

Every single UDM that I have seen in an ANACS holder would cross.

K6AZ

You speak of would cross, I've tried to cross them, and every one has come back from PCGS as "altered surfaces". Good luck if you would like to try this one, I've had enough.

barberlover

This coin does not appear to have altered surfaces, but what does concern me is two fold and they are both connected 1. the frost break on the face seams awful large and distracting for a 65 and 2. For a coin that valuable why was it submitted to Anacs in the first place ?

I decided not go go after this coin because of those concerns, but if I had [and this is a suggestion to anyone thinking about buying this beautiful coin] What I would have done is contact the owner and ask him for the following deal; submit the coin to pcgs for me and I'll pay the 100 dollar service level, in return if it crosses the coin is mine, but if it doesn't cross he keeps the coin and I swallow the hundred buck loss. Thats the only way I'd suggest buying the coin. I see nothing on the coin to indicate altered surfaces, but the difference between a 64 dmpl and a 65 can't be made up for in eye appeal alone.

Les

MadMarty

<< <i>For a coin that valuable why was it submitted to Anacs in the first place ? >>


I can offer up an opinion on why it's in an ANACS slab.

Back in the 90s when I got back into collecting Morgans I sent everything to ANACS. Why?
1) I didn't have to join a club
2) If you sent in over 10 coins they gave you a discount
3) I would have my coins graded in 5 days
4) I like the slab sizes
5) If I sent a coin to PCGS or NGC I would have to take it to a dealer who charged alot more then the $30 submission rate

That coin is in an older ANACS slab, and I like it!!!

EVillageProwler

Eric is correct, of course, in noting that PCGS have been absolutely brutal on CC DMPL's lately. Even were they not brutal, it'll still be hard to achieve a high rate of success with crossovers (to PCGS as well as to NGC).

It is also difficult for me to accept the claim of a fairly recent member whose profile is hidden (can't voire dire him) when he says, "Every single UDM that I have seen in an ANACS holder would cross". That's a fantastic remark to make if you consider the odds that every single ANACS UDM that his eyes ever came across happens to be high-end by PCGS standards. With that kind of ability to beat the odds, I beg that you let me know your next lottery ticket #.

Finally, I would like to ask Les how he can say that the coin does not appear to have altered surfaces. Unless he's seen the coin in hand and via a strong scope, I'd like to ask him to educate us on the art of dissecting a digital image.

BTW, I am not impugning Kyle's reputation nor am I asserting that this coin is problematic. I am merely shining some strong light on some fantastic comments made in this thread.

EVP

paigowjohnny

<< <i>For a coin that valuable why was it submitted to Anacs in the first place ? >>


Because some of us actually like ANACS...imagine that...

K6AZ

As I said in an earlier post, I didn't know who was selling it when I made my initial comment. My comments were based on my first hand experience with ANACS prooflike Morgans, and were not directed at the seller. In my opinion, ANACS is very good with grades from circulated to MS64, but they are off on MS65 and above, and I have had enough downgrades and bodybags to prove it.

And yes Pat, I would think if Kyle is selling it should be a nice coin, but as someone else noted, PCGS is brutal on PLs, and the market severely discounts high end ANACS slabs. If this were my coin, I would give it a shot at NGC.

DennisH

I hate trying to judge coins from scans... but it doesn't look like a 65 to me. (The huge vertical luster scuff on the cheekbone is way too distracting for me!) I'm not even so sure it's a 64.

barberlover

Finally, I would like to ask Les how he can say that the coin does not appear to have altered surfaces. Unless he's seen the coin in hand and via a strong scope, I'd like to ask him to educate us on the art of dissecting a digital image.

BTW, I am not impugning Kyle's reputation nor am I asserting that this coin is problematic. I am merely shining some strong light on some fantastic comments made in this thread.

EVP >>




Interesting the way you phrased what you wrote Evp.
You are shining some strong light on some "fantastic" claims made in this thread, of course you took what I said out of context and stated only one part of my responce and left the other part out.

So I'll address your snippet from my answer first, it doesn't appear to be tampered with to me, yes I said this in regaurds to a digi pick and yes it is just my opionion and yes, it would be better to see the coin in person. So what ??? Now as to the other part of my answer you left out, that the coin has a frost brake to large in my opionion for the grade of 65, to warrant 65 money ? Do you disagree with that comment ? Or was the other one the only one you could "shine the light on" ?

Les

K6AZ

Which "fantastic" claims are you referring to?

I simply saw the coin and related my experience with ANACS prooflike Morgans. I didn't make any claims about this particular coin.

kyleknap

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input! I just wanted to add a few of my own thoughts here. Please note that I am not trying to talk this coin up to sell it to any of you -- if you wanted it I'm sure it'd be gone already.

In response to the "altered surface" suggestions, I can say with 100% assurance this is not the case. Carson City DMPLs are one of my specialties, and this coin is perfectly in line with many others I have owned in the past.

Secondly I want to point out the difference between an ANACS "DMPL" and an ANACS "UDM". ANACS is, in my opinion, quite generous in giving out DMPL designations. They claim to require for 4” of clear reflectivity, which is a rule they do abide by, however this is far short of the industry “standard” at PCGS, which is 8.” I very rarely sell coins in ANACS “DMPL” holders, simply because they do not bring near the prices they would if slabbed by PCGS. However, ANACS is the only service to designate “UDM” (ultra deep-mirror) to Morgans which exhibit mirrors 12” or deeper. This designation is why the coin is in an ANACS holder. ANACS UDMs in general bring much higher prices than equivalent coins in PCGS DMPL holders at the same grade. Just last month I sold an 1884-O in ANACS 65UDM for $995 (a $500 coin in PCGS 65DM), and in the past I have sold many other UDMs for significant premiums over PCGS coins (83cc’s in 64UDM for $500, 85o’s in 63UDM for $250), and I have seen quite a few others sell at similar prices. I myself frequently crack DMPLs out of PCGS holders to submit to ANACS if they are UDM caliber.

As to the technical grade? The coin certainly isn’t a 65.9; anyone can see that.

As a basis for a selling price; average PCGS 65DMs at the Vegas show this weekend were at $1,000 each, and last night I sold a very nice PCGS 65DM (cleaner, though not nearly as deep as this one) for $1,250.

Kyle Knapp
showoffcoin

JrGMan2004

I was wondering... why would the frost break hurt the grade? Isn't it hits, luster, and strike that effect the grade? I was also under the impression that the PL/DMPL/UDM designators are strictly by the fields, and that a coin could be devoid of luster, and still be PL/DMPL/UDM... was I misinformed in this? I'm pretty sure I was told by board members that the designation is strictly by the fields...

Edited to say: And I think that is one stunner of a coin, frost breaks or no frost breaks, still awesome looking!!!

ultradmpldollars

This UDM is amazing Kyle.. You will not believe how difficult it is to get a UDM at ANACS and or to buy one at a show, if you can find them. They have really thinned out. I would rather own an ANACS UDM Morgan over a PCGS/NGC dmpl morgan anyday, (given the pcgs/ngc isn't UDM). I really find nothing wrong with buying ANACS dmpl coins, as you can buy them cheaper to a similar PCGS coin. There are a lot of people that buy the holder (ex. PCGS,NGC) and not the actual coin, as you can see on auctions ended on eBay. That is a beautiful piece and can about imagine what it looks like in person.

MFH

My first reaction upon viewing this coin was..."Oh My God !"

Its an absolutely breathtaking coin. I wouldn't mind owning it, and I don't collect Morgans !

That's all I have to say.

kyleknap

I guess someone liked it.

Kyle

K6AZ

Kyle, be very careful and cover yourself if this guy uses a credit card.

Bidder History

kyleknap

Thanks for the heads up K6AZ.

Kyle

coingame2000

Hi Kyle,

I had a very bad experience with the guy Eric is refering to -- he's bad news and I avoid him like the plague.

Mike