UPPER DECK EXQUISITE BASKETBALL

kuhlmann

A couple guys on here asked about this product i got the info today. expect it to sell from 500-800 a box for 1 pack depending on when and where you find it. 1 pack 5 cards 1 auto patch card!

THIS PRODUCT WILL BE SEVERELY ALLOCATED!

Release date Tuesday June 8th, 2004


INTRODUCING EXQUISITE COLLECTION BASKETBALL FROM UPPER DECK FEATURING THE HIGHEST-END TRADING CARDS AND BOXIN THE MARKET TODAY!
FIND 1 AUTOGRAPH PATCHCARD SEQUENTIALLY NUMBERED TO 100 OR LESS!
LOOK FOR AN EXQUISITE AUTOGRAPH ROOKIE PATCH CARD IN EVERY BOX!
EXCLUSIVE AUTOGRAPHS & MEMORABILIA FROM MICHAEL JORDAN, KOBE BRYANT & LEBRON JAMES!

PRODUCT BREAKDOWN:

Autograph Patch cards - delivering a minimum of 1: boxon average!
o Autograph Exquisite Patches - Sequentially #'d to 100!
o Noble Nameplates (Autographed) - Sequentially #'d to 25!
o Limited Logos (Autographed) - Sequentially #'d to 75!
o Scripted Swatches (Autographed) - Sequentially #'d to 25!
o ExquisiteRegular Player Autograph Patch parallel - 1 of 1!
o Exquisite Number Pieces (Autographed) -Seq #'d to jersey #!
o Emblems of Endorsements (Autographed) - Sequentially #'d to 15!

Autographed Rookie Memorabilia cards - delivering 1: box on average!
o Exquisite Rookie Memorabilia (level 2-signed) - Seq #'d to 225!
Parallel - Sequentially #'d to jersey number!
o Exquisite Rookie Patches (level 1-signed) - Sequentially #'d to 99!
Parallel -Sequentially #'d to jersey number!

MoreMemorabilia cards - Sequentially #'d to 75 or less!
o All-NBA Access (dual NBA Logomanpatches) - #'d 1 of 1!
o Exquisite RegularPlayer Jersey parallel - Sequentially #'d to 25!
o Exquisite Regular Player Patch parallel- Sequentially #'d to 10!
o Extra Exquisite (Oversize Jersey Swatches) - Seq #'d to 75!
~;~ o Extra Exquisite Duals - Sequentially #'d to25!
o Exquisite Triple Patches - Sequentially #'d to 10!
o Exquisite Quad Patches -Sequentially #'d to 3!
o Exquisite Foursomes (Quad Patches) - Sequentially #'d to 10!

~;~Rookie Parallel cards
o ExquisiteRookie Platinum parallel - Sequentially #'d to 25!
o Exquisite Rookie Black parallel - Sequentially #'d to 1!

Regular cards and Parallels
o Regular Player cards - Sequentially #'d to 225!
Regular Player Platinum parallel - Sequentially #'d to 25!
Regular Player Black parallel - Sequentially #'dto 1!

Aknot

5 to 600 dollars for one box? Sorry to me this is the stuff that "ruins" the hobby. Why price it so far out of "Joe" collectors reach. Now I know some of you here are in it for the Investment and thats really great but why not just make a "Investors" only sets or something.

Does anyone "agree" with me? The vintage cards are priced so because condition, age and player. (not necessarily in that order) What type of "effect" will this stuff have on the long term with regard to hobbyist/investors? I mean we all know of the "pack" tearers looking for "High Dollar" cards and "trashing" the rest.

Sorry if this is considered "hijacking" a thread, and the cards appear nice and all but my god that price is out there.....

**EDIT**
Also does it actually cost that much to create a box? If anyone has some insight I would be curious to know how the creators (UD/Playoff/Pacific/etc.) set their price. Both the SRP and wholesale price.

kuhlmann

Aknot

Welcome to upperdeck riding the lebron rookie thing as far as they can take it!!!! I think it is crazy myself but i have over 2 dozen emails on my website asking if i will get any. so i will try to get as many as i can. but might only get 1 case.
It is a suckers box. only way i see you making money off the flip is on a lebron or carmelo auto pull. or mj shaq etc.. you pull reece gaines and you just lost 400$. so id say stay away. but some people wanted the info.

Aknot

Hey I hear ya. Im not shooting the messenger. And Im all for giving the customer what he wants. Im just trying to figure out how the "Hobby" part figures all into this. I mean to have a print run and realize there are some short print cards (Arrington Ultra for example) to me is "cool" it gives the EVERYONE the chance to pull a "money" card without paying an arm and a leg and (as you pointed out) loose that arm and leg if they do not.

joestalin

Lets look at what they will put in this as Im sure they won't have the balls to release the player
checklist before they ask dealers to pony up the money.

Number of current non rookie stars in basketball: roughly 15
Number of current non rookies whose auto patches would sell for more than 500 (which means
getting your money back): 0

Number of current rookies used by UD in their products: 75
Number of rookies whose patch autos would sell for over 500.00: 2

so that means that there will be 8910 500.00 packs in just the base auto patches..of those 8900 packs
only 150 of them will be able to get their money back....If you bought all those packs it would cost you
4.45 millon dollars and you would be able to get only 75 grand back.

I ask you this:

WHO ARE THE MORONS BUYING THIS PRODUCT? UD PUTS THE WEAKEST PLAYERS IN THEIR PRODUCTS...IF
YOU CAN'T GET YOUR MONEY BACK ON A 100 DOLLAR THAT GETS YOU 24 PACKS, WHY DO YOU THINK
YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY BACK ON A 500 DOLLAR PRODUCT????

Even if they put Bird and Magic in it...would an autograph of them numbered to 99 actually bring
500 bucks?? I don't think so!

Think about it...what in baskeball nets you 500 bucks in an online auction?? Probably MJ...Kobe won't,
no shaq, Lebron yes...Carmello maybe....whats after that? Even if you pull a 1/1 auto, you will
have to hit the above guys to get your money back.

I see NO reason to buy this product...what fun is ripping 1 pack when the downside is so huge?

but like kuhl said, he already has people knocking down the door on these, they will sell! Sad as it
may seem.

JS

Stone193

Kevin
You well know that there are some serious gamblers out there who love that kind of sh$t! It's like going to Vegas (which I love). I agree with you, I can't see it - right now I'm sittin on an auction hoping to bag a gu bat of a future hall of famer at a fair price - to me that is more fun and challenge.
Mike

KallMaloneSay

If there are people willing to spend up to $30,000 on a PSA 8 1952 Topps common to complete their set on the PSA set registry (which costs them $3 million to complete but if resold would fetch just over $1 million), then there have to be some people ready to shell out $500 for a chance at some sweet modern cards. I'd guess any 1/1 AUTO/3 color patch of any decent NBA star would fetch at least $500-$2000, Jordan and LeBron maybe $10,000. As far as ruining the hobby, I don't think so. A product like this will never be the norm, just there for a few high rollers to play around with. The most expensive products created in the hobby so far have been Ultimate Collection and Playoff Prime Cuts, let's see about what the unopened box prices have done so far...

2001 Ultimate Collection Baseball: came out at about $90 a pack, and now sell for maybe $150 a pack (and that's with the Prior and Teixeira AUTO redemptions already past due)

2002 Ultimate Collection Baseball: This product has a dreadful rookie checklist (Ishii is the best one) and it is up from $250 to now about $330 a box

2001-02 Ultimate Coll. Basketball: terrible rookie class, but still it is selling for about $450 a box up from $300 when released

2002-03 Ultimate Coll. Basketball: Yao and Amare should prove to be Hall of Famers as long as they don't pull Shawn Kemp or Derrick Coleman's on us, up to about $450 from $350 initially

2003-04 Ultimate Coll. Basketball: These are PRESELLING at about $450 a box and don't come out for another month. FYI I just ordered my case at $255 a box direct (those #%$@'s at Upper Deck are only letting me get one case despite getting 2 cases of every other product, $#@*% $&*#@!!!!!) These should be at $500 when they are live on the market

2003 Ultimate Collection Football: Bad rookie class, not up imensely, but still up about $20-$30 from release just four months ago

2004 Playoff Prime Cuts baseball: up from $150 at release to about $200, and I'm getting a few requests for these still, I just don't feel comfortable getting them in at $200 and charging $280 just to make a decent profit

So with these numbers I imagine the Exquisite Basketball will go up and up. Is it worht busting, maybe, maybe not. Some people out there will get lucky on a pack and make a ton of money, others will pay $500 and be lucky to get $200 back, but everyone who opens wax understands they are taking a risk when they open it, that's what makes it more fun than just paying for a card you see in front of you. I'll order my case or two of it. FYI the SP Game Patch baseball comes out on Friday with an SRP of $200, let's see how it does, Jason

kuhlmann

""FYI I just ordered my case at $255 a box direct (those #%$@'s at Upper Deck are only letting me get one case despite getting 2 cases of every other product, $#@*% $&*#@!!!!!) ""


Kallmalonesay ohh my earlier days of posting here whwn i said i hated upper deck bc of there service you disagreed. now it seems you agree with me!!

kallmalonesay this is just a little jab for funny note not looking for a fight with you. but like i said upper deck is bad customer service!! even the guys at feild of dreams tell me that.

Aknot

kuhlmann,

You own a physical shop? I got my resale cert but UD and a few others will not sell to me direct. So from your "statement" Im assuming the price for shops is about %50 of SRP? Man that bites....kinda.... A reseller is a reseller is a reseller.


ooops there I go again hijacking a thread....sorry

kuhlmann

Aknot

Yes i own a shop, but its more of a college products store, like flags banners tags clings keychains etc..

website is www.gamedaylegends.com

Aknot

<< <i>Aknot

Yes i own a shop, but its more of a college products store, like flags banners tags clings keychains etc..

website is www.gamedaylegends.com >>



Im sorry you mentioned that before.....oooops.

TheRoach

I don't need to quote some of the people who I agree with on this subject. Stalin and Kuhlman pretty much said just the way I feel. What a huge ripoff and gamble.

Let's not forget that most aut/jersey/patch cards that were selling for $400-$600 awhile back mainly did so because of supply and demand. This product is going to flood the market with more of these type cards. Upper Deck's version of '04 Diamond Kings with those 1/1 bull$hit cards.

It has gotten way out of control. Collecting has turned millions into gamblers. When you spend that kind of $$$ on a pack of basketball cards, you had better have all of your other finances in order to justify that type of waste. I could think of a ton of other things that my family or home could use that $$$ for.



TheRoach

ctsoxfan

<< <i>It has gotten way out of control. Collecting has turned millions into gamblers. When you spend that kind of $$$ on a pack of basketball cards, you had better have all of your other finances in order to justify that type of waste. I could think of a ton of other things that my family or home could use that $$$ for. >>



That about sums it up for me. It wouldn't be so bad if you at least got something on your "miss" packs. I broke down and bought one SP Sig tin last week, and wound up with a Corey Maggette auto. Worthless. If I spent $500-$800 on a pack/box/tin/whatever of this stuff, and got a 1/1 Corey Maggette auto/patch/uniform/whatever, I would be understandably pissed.

Jaypers

I am currently attempting to acquire a checklist of this product from a few sources. When I do, I'll be sure to share it with whomever wants it.

If the checklist has a lot more good names than scrubs, I will probably take the "moron" route and buy a 3-box case. But not to open. I will sit on it until next season, THEN flip.

As much as I disapprove of UD reaching into people's pockets for this one, there will always be some millionaire high rollers who will delight in this product. Why not dip into the pool just a bit? I understand there will be about 400-450 cases produced, making this one RARE puppy.

Who knows- if it turns out to be popular I may just take the plunge and plunk down some $$ for a pack to open.

Jaypers

Just emailed Chris Carlin at UD and got the standard PR answer. But I will keep trying.

>>>JP,

I do not have a checklist I can share with you as of yet. Please check with your local hobby dealer as we get closer to the release of this product in June.

Sincerely,

Chris Carlin
Customer Service Manager
The Upper Deck Company, LLC.

Basilone

Prime Cut Boxes are going for $160-168 on ebay...and less if you buy multiples.

joker73

I'd much rather take $500 to Vega$ ... or better yet, have a *massive* spending spree on singles I want off of eBay.

The comparison to a '52 Topps low pop PSA 8 is misguided (which, in reality, is much more similar to a modern card like the '94 ARod SP rookie if you think about it, but I digress). For the sake of argument, let's use the '52 Topps Pafko. There is only 1 "version" of it, period (and don't give me any blank back crap). No numbered parallel(s), no auto'd version, no auto/patch version, no pre-release graded version, no master proof 1/1 - just the regular old Topps base card #1. Currently, there are 8 PSA 8s NQ, no 9s, and only 1 PSA 10 (which sold for $84,000 and I'd guess is off the market). So, if a high-end set collector wanted to have one of the best sets around, he needs one of those PSA 8 Pafkos, and only 8 exist. In this case, what's driving the collector's willingness to pay? Scarcity, condition, and authentication.

Now, let's think about the LeBron craze. Every few weeks, a new release from UD comes out, supposedly with the new "best" rookie LeBron rookie. It went from SPGU to Sweet Shot to UD Glass to SPx to SP Sig - with SPA, UC, and now this insane release still to come. The biggest problem to me isn't necessarily that there are so many releases (in the end, which is his "true" RC?), but rather that the prices realized for the more sought-after Lebron cards are directly related to the unopened box prices of the releases they are from. That's it - the scarcity issue is purely artificial (no one actually believes that the patch on Lebron's SPGU auto card is from a different jersey than the one used for SPX, or the one they're using for SPA or UC or Exquisite, right?). The more expensive releases simply try to "justify" the higher prices via serial-numbering (inversely correlated with box SRP), which they know will translate into higher-priced secondary market sales (such as on eBay), exacerbating the whole lottery mentality. The saddest part is that, in the end, UD isn't doing anything wrong - it's the idiots buying release after release, no matter how much the price goes up. What's next? The $10,000 UD You're-Gonna-Crap-Your-Pants Basketball set, where each pack has a plane ticket to go have lunch with a random NBA star (LEBRON! MJ! KOBE! or ... Keith Van Horn ... just try your luck!)?

My point is this: the factors at work in the high-end modern card market (primarily led by UD) have almost nothing to do with the factors at work in the vintage graded market. It's fashionable for modern collectors to make the comparison in defense of modern card madness, and, in fairness, mony vintage collectors have a stereotype in their minds that all modern cards are junk. I collect both, but generally don't engage in either type of exhuberance ($30k old cards or $500/pack new cards). That said, I guess I understand the former a bit better than the latter. Collectors are directly responsible to insane prices in both situations, but at least with vintage it's purely card driven (with the help of authentication and grading), while with modern cards the manufacturers (notably UD) are only too willing to keep feeding the gambling frenzy.

Robert

P.S. It's weird to think that my entire '01 Classics football auto set (with most of the big name HOFers) cost me less than 2 packs of this stuff. I know what I'd rather have ...

joker73

<< <i>I understand there will be about 400-450 cases produced, making this one RARE puppy. >>



Unless the base set is only going to consist of 18 total player cards, there is going to be a *lot* more than 450 cases made (based on current configuration info of 5 cards per box/3 boxes per case). Don't believe the hype and make sure you do the math before lining UD's pockets with more gold ...

Robert

Jaypers

Looks as though I was mistaken about the prod #s. Some dealer on eBay had that in his auction and I bought into it.

Here's what Chris from Blowoutcards has to say about it:

As you can see from the posting below....UD has given us a sneak preview of the 2003/04 UD EXQUISITE Basketball product. Its going to be a 3 Box Case. 5 Cards per pack. The checklist has yet to be released. Each card in the Packs is considered a Big Pull although at least 4 of the 5 Cards are Bigger Pulls. The production run looks to be very similar to that of 2003/04 Ultimate Collection Bskt. But there will be less if you look at the actual breakdown. Ultimate Collection should still be a very strong product but doing the numbers...There are about 1200 Cases Made in our opinion.... 4 Box Cases and 4 Packs per Box. Thats 19,200 Packs of Ultimate Collection . A very small number compared to 750,000-over 1 Million packs of most mainstream products. The Exquisite will be ONLY 3600 Packs !!(Assuming 1200 Cases and 3 Boxes per Case...1 Pack per Box).

If you look at the progression of the Hobby the past 10 years...there are many factors that point out that this will be more than a success. Everytime a new product comes out that "Breaks" the barrier or "Price Point"...It is a Roaring success. Starting with 1989 UD, 1993 Topps Finest, 1994 Leaf Limited...going into the Signature Packs in the Late 90's...Then the Ultimate Collection Packs...followed recently by the Leaf Limited and Prime Cuts Packs...We are now at a $500 price point with the Exquisite. Is it good or bad for the Hobby? Everyone has their own opinion on that....But There will be more than enough demand to cover 3600 packs...more than enough to cover 5000 packs...It is in the best interest of UD to make this a sure winner...otherwise...how else can they bring out Exquisite Baseball, Football,Hockey and Golf. They chose the right sport to start it with....Basketball is as Hot as its ever been...They will be sure to load this product up with many $1000-$5000 type lottery cards. It will make people feel that even at $500 a pack...you've got a decent chance to double your money by hitting a $1000 "ebay-able" card.

This product is not for everyone...it may only be in the price range of 5% of the collecting population but that 5% of the collectors probably contribute into buying 50% or more of the wax thats in the Hobby. You could see $700 or $2000+ a Case on these. Mainly because most of the packs will be broken and the singles e-bayed...and the final factor is that it will dry up in the secondary market with weeks. You could see half the production run opened in the first week.

joker73

Thanks JP - I was using their site for product info as well.

I forgot to mention one other thing earlier - the whole "1 pack per box" thing is also a marketing joke. The box/pack distinction is meaningless, and I can't tell you how many times I've overheard browsers at the local money pit react in a startled manner when the owner tells them (for example) that a Prime Cuts "box" has only 1 "pack" of cards in it. Many collectors don't track pre-release information, sell sheets, etc. as closely as many on the board. They just swing by the local card shop once a week/month/whatever, ask whats "new" and "hot" and then pick up a few boxes to rip at home. UD knows this, and continuing to call a 1 pack box a "box" is a total joke.

The reality is that UD is offering a $1500 box of cards, where each box has 3 packs (each with 5 cards). In addition, the notion of a "case" is meaningless here. But the marketing gurus at UD know that a $500 "pack" would never be received as well as a $500 "box," so they carefully choose the latter even though there is really no difference. Once again, if UD can pull it off, kudos to them. But I think we as consumers need to start thinking very seriously about the emergence of the high-end market and where things go from here. With each higher-priced release that sells out, UD total revenue starts coming more and more from those products. Base UD releases already suck, thanks to the past success of SPA and SPx (and even those two have been a total crapshoot the past 2 years).

It's not too far of a leap to see a world where UD starts segmenting players based on product, so that crappy players and 2nd tier rookies go into less expensive releases, and the all big names and hot rookies are only available in their $500+/pack products. If you think about, they're already halfway there by offering better odds and player selection in high-end stuff - pull a MJ auto out of SPA, and you're stunned and filled with feeling of mega-mojo. But if you pull one out of UC, and you're really psyched - but not as surprised because the odds you beat weren't as long, not to mention what you paid for the box ...

Robert