'Environmental Damage"

marz · March 3, 2004 5:11PM

can someone explain this "grade" please. - "environmental damage" ???

18 40324082 1966 TOPPS 30 PETE ROSE N/A 8
19 40324083 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL BOB BESCHER PINS 6
20 40324084 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL KID ELBERFELD PINS-SM. LETTERS 8
21 40324085 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL ED KONETCHY PINS 9
22 40324086 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL RED AMES PINS 6
23 40324087 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL LARRY DOYLE PINS-LG. LETTERS 9
24 40324088 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL JOHNNY EVERS PINS 6
25 40324089 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL MATTY McINTYRE PINS-WH.SOX,LARGE 8
26 40324090 1910 -12 SWEET CAPORAL RED MURRAY PINS-SM. LETTERS 8
27 40324091 1909 E92 CROFT'S COCOA JOHNNY SEIGLE SIEGLE 4
28 40324092 1909 E92 CROFT'S CANDY BOB BESCHER N/A 5
29 40324093 1909 E92 CROFT'S CANDY SAM CRAWFORD N/A 6
30 40324094 1909 E92 CROFT'S CANDY ART DEVLIN N/A 3
31 40324095 1910 E93 STANDARD CRML FRANK CHANCE N/A 4
32 40324096 1910 E93 STANDARD CRML. RUBE WADDELL N/A 6
33 40324097 1910 E93 STANDARD CRML. CY YOUNG N/A 4
34 40324098 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY JOHNNY BATES N/A 5
35 40324099 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY BOB BESCHER N/A 5
36 40324100 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY BOBBY BYRNE N/A 4
37 40324101 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY ED CICOTTE N/A 5
38 40324102 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY SAM CRAWFORD N/A 5
39 40324103 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY NAP LAJOIE N/A 7
40 40324104 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY CY YOUNG N/A 6
41 40324105 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY JOHN McGRAW N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
42 40324106 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY TRIS SPEAKER N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
43 40324107 1909 E95 PHILA.CARAMEL JOHNNY EVERS N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
44 40324108 1910 E105 MELLO-MINT NAP LAJOIE N/A 6
45 40324109 1910 E105 MELLO-MINT HONUS WAGNER BATTING 2
46 40324110 1911 CHRISTY MATHEWSON DARK CAP 5
47 40324111 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY HARRY DAVIS N/A 2
48 40324112 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY RED KLEINOW N/A 5
49 40324113 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY TOMMY LEACH N/A 4
50 40324114 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY HANS LOBERT N/A 2
51 40324115 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY HARRY DAVIS N/A 5
52 40324116 1939 V118 GANONG BROS. 34 SITTING BULL BIG CHIEF 6MK
53 40324117 1939 V118 GANONG BROS. 7 CHIEF JOSEPH BIG CHIEF 5

Date Received: 02/25/2004

RonD · March 3, 2004 5:20PM

Well I am not a card guy but Environmental Damage implies water or moisture exposure or some kind of cleaning attempted.

marz · March 3, 2004 5:43PM

<< Well I am not a card guy but Environmental Damage implies water or moisture exposure or some kind of cleaning attempted. >>

cleaning,at least via psa has it's own designation apart from this one. now post some cards non card guy and let's see watcha got.

this grade is not encouraging on pricey cards. These cards were just pulled out of sgc holders.

RonD · March 3, 2004 5:57PM

Hope this was not the submission you mentioned which contained 60K in cards. Cause it don't add up. Maybe the graders at PSA were wrong on the Enviro Damage. Otherwise your 20 years of collecting has not taught you much, holdered or not.

I don't have any cards, Marz. You know that. I just post here cuz I'm bored.

marz · March 4, 2004 2:22AM

dear Mr. assumption-

1) notice the submittal form I posted STARTS at number 18* The 17 cards previous were not of concern in my inquiry,thus your again assumption of the value of my submittal is incorrect.

2) I am a lot older than you are little guy and have not nor did I state that I have been collecting for 20 years. I have been collecting cards actually for 40 years pup and do not need your inane cheap shots. Feel releived to take your bordem elsewhere.

In addition,having restored hundred's of well known plein air California impressionistic paintings I know plenty about how to evaluate paper.I worked in counterfeit document detection in fact while in the armed forces so please stop pestering me with the demented diatribes.You already exposed your lack of knowledge on the value of true pre war vintage cards so you need not comment on that as it too is not part of the question I posed.

RonD · March 4, 2004 2:43AM

Lt. Predictable

Paper restoration...Now I understand the semi-high grades. Note to self: Beware of the cert numbers listed above from Lt. Predictable's submission. So numbers 1-17 add up to $45K I suppose. Must be some key cards. Please share. You seem to be willing to divulge almost everything else about yourself. Why holdback now?

Thanks for taking the time to talk with me.

Your pal,

Ron

toppsgun · March 4, 2004 2:45AM

Is it just me or does RonD sound a lot like Greg Schwartz (botn)? I thought he got booted long ago. Is he back? Not enough room on the other board to handle his rantings?

Anywho, some detective needs to cross reference RonD's topics and themes with the old botn's.

goodriddance189 · March 4, 2004 2:49AM

he sounds like MyBigToe/BOTN

Vargha · March 4, 2004 2:52AM

E-mail him and ask him (or give him a phone call).

RonD · March 4, 2004 3:11AM

Sorry guys. Know of him but am definitely not him.

wolfbear · March 4, 2004 3:46AM

Can't be BOTN, because Greg gave his word to Joe Orlando that he would no longer post on these boards.

And we all know that Schwartz is a man of honor ...

marz · March 4, 2004 8:02AM

<< Lt. Predictable

Paper restoration...Now I understand the semi-high grades. Note to self: Beware of the cert numbers listed above from Lt. Predictable's submission. So numbers 1-17 add up to $45K I suppose. Must be some key cards. Please share. You seem to be willing to divulge almost everything else about yourself. Why holdback now?

Thanks for taking the time to talk with me.

simple-you know little about the value of cards as well or you would know just how incredibly expensive e94's are especially in high grade. You should thank me,I suspect I am one of the only ones who will talk to you.I have lots of key cards boy but considering your already lack of knowledge I need not bother.

Your pal,

Ron >>

marz · March 4, 2004 8:04AM

<< Is it just me or does RonD sound a lot like Greg Schwartz (botn)? I thought he got booted long ago. Is he back? Not enough room on the other board to handle his rantings?

Anywho, some detective needs to cross reference RonD's topics and themes with the old botn's. >>

Topp Gun,this little boy above could not hold a candle to the kind of flames BOTN can hurl. This is powder puff softball for Greg and the no nothing above is surely not Greg as greg not only knows cards but he also knows me and would never write such inane jibberish about me on here. trust me-it is not Greg.

marz · March 4, 2004 8:05AM

<< Sorry guys. Know of him but am definitely not him. >>

We know-Greg owns cards.

Cubfan · March 4, 2004 8:46AM

Back to the question - What is environmental damage? Rust? Mold?

koby · March 4, 2004 9:29AM

$60000?

RonD · March 4, 2004 9:50AM

Lt. Marz,

It is clear why you picked this name. You are in orbit my friend. When you write to me can you please take off your foil helmet? You must be getting interference from your computer monitor.

Shall I value cards on lines 18-53? I suggest these would not sell for more than 12K to 15K upon glancing over the list.

Lt, are you ever in the LA area? Would love to have you over with police escort, of course. I can show you what a real collection of cards looks like. Would expect a guy who has collected for 40 years to have a more substantial collection. Must be the 38 year lay off.

To repeat the answer to the question. Environmental Damage is mositure/water damage sustained by a card.

marz · March 4, 2004 10:56AM

your popularity is not rising little fella with the lack of content to each and every retort post and no cards. Again you apparently have no clue as to the value of George Close Candy cards. in addition,the t-206 matty is a broadleaf 460 back that will command giant money as there are five known and I sold a 4 for 5k. And yes-Koby including the first 17 cards not listed the lot would sell for in excess of 60 k with ease. T-206's of hall of famers in 7-9 holders command large dollars and can be sold with phone calls. They had nothing to do with my original question and frankly I did not even mean to cut/paste that much of the invoice. As typical of a couple of other fine little boys,each and every post is devoid of any information on cards they either want or possess. I realize you can post away on here without actually owning cards but Geeeeezzzz ,how much can you know dreaming of having two nickels to rub together all day. it gets old fast. Post away and keep up the redunant digs it further exposes the reality-you have no collection but want to play on here anyway. Go for it little one. It'a amusing as you get pushed back in line while other's inquire as to how they might trade or purchase cards from me.

WinPitcher · March 4, 2004 11:02AM

This is fun, almost like a soap

RonD · March 4, 2004 11:14AM

Lt.

I thought I would post cards 1-17 of your sub.

1 40324065 1910 E98 SET OF 30 MINER BROWN 4
2 40324066 1910 E98 SET OF 30 FRED CLARKE FRANK CHANCE 4
3 40324067 1910 E98 SET OF 30 FRED CLARKE Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
4 40324068 1909 E101 'SET OF 50' HARRY DAVIS NOT HOLDERED/MISCUT
5 40324069 1908 E-102 SET OF 25 BOB BESCHER 3
6 40324070 1908 E-102 SET OF 25 HEINIE ZIMMERMAN 5
7 40324071 1910 E105 MELLO-MINT RED DOOIN 3
8 40324072 1910 E105 MELLO-MINT JOHN McGRAW 3
9 40324073 1910 E105 MELLO-MINT GERMANY SCHAEFER 3
10 40324074 1916 TANGO EGGS BOB BESCHER 7
11 40324075 1915 CRACKER JACK RUBE MARQUARD 5
12 40324076 1911 GOLD BORDER HAL CHASE BOTH EARS, BORDER ENDS 4
13 40324077 1910 COUPON CIGS CHIEF MEYERS TYPE 1 2
14 40324078 1914 T213 COUPON CIGS. ROGER BRESNAHAN TYPE 2-CHICAGO 2
15 40324079 1914 T216 PEOPLES TOB. JOE TINKER 4
16 40324080 1914 T216 PEOPLES TOB. JOE TINKER 3
17 40324081 1887 N284 GOLD COIN JOHN McGLAVE 3

No way 1-53 brings 60K US. Nothing wrong with being proud of your collection but you are a dreamer Lt. At best you have 5 big cards, if your Matty really is the 460, and the rest can be picked up anywhere. Are the voices in your head giving you the 60K figure?

marz · March 4, 2004 11:43AM

wrong! but of course you can keep trying. someday you may have a couple of cards of your own. The full invoice with multiple numbers has a group of T-206's as stated.

marz · March 4, 2004 11:45AM

oh , and I am sure another "cardless' commentary will appear denouncing what Marz means because he has not a clue.

RonD · March 4, 2004 12:03PM

No Lt. I am done. I think I proved my point.

Boopotts · March 4, 2004 3:37PM

Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Who cares? The original post queried board members about the meaning of environmental damage. If you don't have anything meaningful to add to that discussion, then don't throw your hat in the ring.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. But this should be a place for hobbyists and sports enthusiasts to discuss and debate issues that are relevant to the hobby and related pursuits. If you want argue about the value of someone's collection, then PM the board member in question; or, better yet, drop the subject, start a new thread and post something constructive.

RonD · March 4, 2004 4:29PM

I answered the members question, twice. I guess that you have trouble reading if you did not notice this nor the relentless attacks issued by the member.

marz · March 5, 2004 2:25AM

<< Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Who cares? The original post queried board members about the meaning of environmental damage. If you don't have anything meaningful to add to that discussion, then don't throw your hat in the ring.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. But this should be a place for hobbyists and sports enthusiasts to discuss and debate issues that are relevant to the hobby and related pursuits. If you want argue about the value of someone's collection, then PM the board member in question; or, better yet, drop the subject, start a new thread and post something constructive. >>

Your right and the whole point is this Ron guy has no cards or knowledge thus I give him a reason to live on here otherwise there is no telling what havic he may attempt on a child's board.

WinPitcher · March 5, 2004 4:19AM

do you mean "havoc"?

koby · March 5, 2004 4:22AM

<< Well I am not a card guy but Environmental Damage implies water or moisture exposure or some kind of cleaning attempted. >>

If the cards were simply damaged by water or moisture exposure, why would PSA reject the cards? I thought PSA would simply take into consideration any soiling or damage and downgrade the card reather than reject it outright.

1954 · March 5, 2004 4:27AM

I don't know what others here think but that list of cards that Marz has is very impressive. Many of the board members here either don't collect at all (Ron D) or collect one or two sets( nothing wrong with this). These cards are very desirable. I can't quite understand how Kobe knows the value of these..... Maybe he looked them up in the SMR and had a calculator. After all the SMR is right on target for PreWar cards.

Marz- sorry for not answering your original question, but it does have to do with chemical use on the card.
Great stuff.

1954

koby · March 5, 2004 4:37AM

<< I can't quite understand how Kobe knows the value of these..... Maybe he looked them up in the SMR and had a calculator >>

I do not know the value of these cards. Did you see a post from me that said the cards were not valuable or something? I'm sure they are worth a lot, but I have no familiarity with these cards aside from the T206 cards.

Back to the original question. If chemical was used to improve the cards, doesn't PSA have alteration as the reason for rejecting the card? Maybe the word "evironmental" is throwing me off as this conjures image of the card being damaged by rain or soil.

1954 · March 5, 2004 6:59AM

Kobe-
I believe PSA used this term because they could not think of another term to use when detecting a chemical alteration. To my knowledge this term that PSA uses does indicate that some sort of alteration was used other than the more noted "coloring/trimming."
1954

marz · March 5, 2004 8:40AM

<< 

<< I can't quite understand how Kobe knows the value of these..... Maybe he looked them up in the SMR and had a calculator >>

I do not know the value of these cards. Did you see a post from me that said the cards were not valuable or something? I'm sure they are worth a lot, but I have no familiarity with these cards aside from the T206 cards.

Back to the original question. If chemical was used to improve the cards, doesn't PSA have alteration as the reason for rejecting the card? Maybe the word "evironmental" is throwing me off as this conjures image of the card being damaged by rain or soil. >>

Koby,your ok by me bro I have read your posts. To answer your original speculation on the value, I poped the two cards in question out of SGC 88 holders. Presuming no water damage which in itself is absurd because as stated I just poped them out of SGC holders....those two cards would sell for 4k each and the Evers with alleged an alleged trim job another 2500. That's 10.5k right there. The E-94 George Close Candy set is one of the elite mammas of E-Caramel cards and the set would sell for giant money.The Cobb I have on the registry from this set would sell in a Mastro auction for in excess of 15k by itself. An 8 sold for 20k three years ago and that was prior to a caramel card boom. I also submitted a bunch of t206's in super high grade and Ron seems to have no clue as to how rare the 460 back on the PSA 5 Matty is worth.Since this bologna began I received offers of 2500-4k for that card. I guess posting any of this makes me a bragger or whatever,fact is we all share cards and scans and that is part of the fun..............unless your one of the guys with little to know cards who posts on here daily and rips and cuts down those with cards and/or knowledge. there is an obvious few. All you have to do is look at their registered cards.Apparently your post count can constitute being an "expert collector",even if you have little to no cards and certainly nothing of value.

koby · March 6, 2004 2:18AM

<< 
41 40324105 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY JOHN McGRAW N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
42 40324106 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY TRIS SPEAKER N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
43 40324107 1909 E95 PHILA.CARAMEL JOHNNY EVERS N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
>>

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Do you mean to say that you busted these three cards out of their SGC holders prior to sending them to PSA?

Do different grading companies look for different things? I am concerned that SGC was not able to catch cards that have been chemically treated.

Did you see the other thread about SGC being unable to catch a Ty Cobb card that had drastic improvements?

Altered SGC Ty Cobb

marz · March 6, 2004 3:47AM

<< 

<< 
41 40324105 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY JOHN McGRAW N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
42 40324106 1911 E94 CLOSE CANDY TRIS SPEAKER N/A Not Holdered, Environmental Damage
43 40324107 1909 E95 PHILA.CARAMEL JOHNNY EVERS N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming
>>

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Do you mean to say that you busted these three cards out of their SGC holders prior to sending them to PSA?

Do different grading companies look for different things? I am concerned that SGC was not able to catch cards that have been chemically treated.

Did you see the other thread about SGC being unable to catch a Ty Cobb card that had drastic improvements?

DID NOT SEE THE THREAD-PLEASE SEND IT TO ME AND I WILL SEND YOU SCANS OF THE CARDS YOU LIST ABOVE THAT YES,I JUST POPPED OUT OF SGC HOLDERS.

Altered SGC Ty Cobb >>

koby · March 6, 2004 3:54AM

I don't have your email but here is the link....

Altered SGC Ty Cobb

It is quite interesting read about a card that had tears and other defects. The card was repaired and subsequently sent to SGC who was unable to detect any of the alterations.

marz · March 6, 2004 4:01AM

OK, YES NOW I REALIZE THE CARD AND THE SITUATION AS NOTED ON NETWORK54 CHAT. ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS I THINK I KNOW GREG AS WELL AS ANYONE AND HE DOES NOT NEED TO MAKE MO0NEY BY ALTERING CARDS. TAKING CARDS FROM ONE GRADING SERVICE AND CROSSING THEM TO ANOTHER IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE MORE INTEREST AND A SALE IS KOSHER............BUT IN ADDITION, GREG HIMSELF DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO "ALTER" PAPER SO TO CONFUSE HIM WITH THE PROVIDENCE OF THE COBB CARD IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANY CONCERNS OF WHAT THE GRADING COMPANIES DO OR DO NOT DO OR GRADE. BUT THIS IS A ANOTHER CAN OF OLD WORMS NOT RELATED TO "ENVIRONMENTAL" ISSUES!

marz · March 6, 2004 4:12AM

SEND ME A NOTE -i CAN NOT SHRINK THE SCANS DOWN TO POST HERE BUT MAYBE YOU CAN FOR US?

lomismo@earthlink.net

undertheradar · March 6, 2004 7:10AM

Marz,
Are you selling any of them, if so I would be interested in the E94 Close Candy Lajoie PSA 7.

undertheradar · March 6, 2004 7:12AM

Also the T206's

marz · March 6, 2004 1:17PM

<< Also the T206's >>

t-206's , maybe the George Close Candy set I must finnish and upgrade for the set registry. I am alomst done bar these "environmental" issues???? I'll get back to you if you send me an e-mail. Thanks

undertheradar · March 7, 2004 4:56AM

Marz,
Give me your email please.

'Environmental Damage&quot;

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'Environmental Damage"