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possible schill bidder on ebay

Buyers need to beware of- boxing1- on ebay. A bidder using -joes27672- is top bidder most of boxing1 auctions. I went thru all of the feedbacks on joes27672 and this guy has made no purchases over $50 yet he has $1800 worth of bids on boxing1's items. Tell me if i am right or wrong. I find it suspicious.

Marcimage

Comments

  • kobykoby Posts: 1,699 ✭✭
    Could be shilling and certainly looks suspicious. Difficult for ebay to take action unless the two have t he same last name or live in close proximity to one another.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    "possible shill bidder on ebay" i find this hard to belive!!
    Good for you.
  • WabittwaxWabittwax Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭
    Clearly shill bidding does not take place on EBay because it says right there in the rules that it is not allowed
  • 1967topps1967topps Posts: 459 ✭✭
    Yeah, and you're not allowed to go faster than 65 on the NJ Turnpike....
    ebay:1967topps
    1967and 1973 Topps baseball wantlists (any condition) welcome. Once had the #14 ATF 1967 set. Yet another collector like skylaneflyer, gimel1 who made it to the completion of 1967 only to need the money more than the company of 609 close friends.
    Looking for oddball Norm Cash and Cleon Jones stuff, and 1956 team cards
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    I know I'm in a minority here, but what's really the problem with shill bidding? You put up an auction, get a buddy to start bidding, and hope that some moron is dumb enough to get emotionally involved in a cyber auction and pony up more money than is reasonable for the item being sold. So what? If the shill wins, the seller is stuck with the ebay fees, so it's not like it's a no-lose proposition. And I'd like to think that all savvy ebayers have either a) a snipe service, where they enter the highest dollar amount their willing to pay and forget about (or at least quit monitoring) the auction until it closes, or b) already have that number set in their heads, and bid that amount in the minutes before the auction closes.

    I hate to say it, but if you're the type that gets 'caught up' in an auction, and ends up paying more than you were initially prepared to pay, then you have only yourself to blame for letting your emotions get involved in what should be a non-emotional endeavor. As a result, you pay the price for acting irrational. How this could be anyone elses fault but your own has never been clear to me.
  • Boo, you miss the point.

    First of all, it's against auction rules.

    Second, let's say you bid $50 on a card. The second highest bidder (not a shill) bids $30. On ebay, you're now at $31. If the auction ends, you got a good buy, but not a steal. Say the shill comes along and hopes you really want the card, so he bids $45. You just paid $46 when $31 was the true going rate.

    You're saying you're OK with that? If so, let me ask you this: do you send the seller the amount of your "top all" bid or only what the final hammer price is?

    I thought so.
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭
    Boopotts - shilling gives an unfair advantage to a seller to flush out the maximum that another buyer is prepared to pay. The attraction of auctions to buyers is that you may have to pay far less than your maximum, if no other bidders are willing to pay close to that. With shilling, that is gone. A shill bid can be placed at any time during the auction - even as the opening bid to establish a secret floor price.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    Nick-

    Your point re: the fact that shillers eliminate the possibility that the buyer will get something for pennies on the dollar is something I hadn't thought of-- and I should have. For instance, let's say an item that's worth fifty bucks is listed with a starting bid of 10$. One might conceivably put in a snipe for fifty bucks, knowing that he only breaks even (or loses slightly) if he wins the item for his max bid amount, since part of his bid's value comes from those instances where he gets the item for 10,20 or 30 dollars. As such, he's willing to put in a bid of fifty IF that means he'll win the item for below market value a fair percentage of the time. If he had no chance of stealing the item for below market value, he wouldn't have entered the bid in the first place.

    As an example, let's say I bid fifty bucks on an '86 FU Bonds PSA 9 (approximately the going rate). Further, let's assume that I figure to win this item for 35$ 5% of the time, 40$ 5% of the time, 45$ 20% of the time and 50$ 40% of the time. Thirty percent of the time I expect to be outbid. Using these numbers, the 'value' of my bid is:
    {(15*5)+(10*5)+(5*20)}/ 100, which equals $2.25. This may be an acceptable profit margin, or it may not. But let's say it is. However, if unbeknownst to me I was being shilled, and the shiller was intending on bidding the item up to 50$, then the value of my bid is no greater than zero, which clearly makes it a waste of time.

    The obvious counterargument to this, of course, is to say I should only enter a max bid of 45$. But here again, the value of my bid is zero if the auction's being shilled, which puts us back to where we started.

    Thanks for pointing this out. Like I said it never occured to me before, although it certainly should have.


    By the same logic, however, those prospective bidders who make arrangements not to 'compete' with each other on auctions that interest both parties have NO right to whine about shillers, since this same argument can be applied to the losses suffered by the auction in question.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Why can't the seller just set a reserve and do his auction in a fair manner? Also I see no problem with "friends" not competing against one another on auctions. I do not agree that it balances out a sellers shill. not by any means
    Good for you.
  • Win, that is wrong, too. Collusion to affect auction outcomes is wrong and illegal in every state. As a seller, would you like it if bidders colluded to reduce the prices you realize?
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,238 ✭✭✭
    toppsgun has nailed it again - the only way to keep a level playing field is to keep it on the level, at all levels.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I agree, however I think my point was not taken the way intended. What I meant was that If I see someone bidding on a card that I need too I may just not. I didnt mean to email during an auction and make 'arrangements" I believe that all auctions should be fair for both seller and buyer. jeeze i didnt say anything about collusion lol
    Good for you.
  • WabittwaxWabittwax Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭
    Boopotts, I think you just guaranteed yourself the every person on these boards will avoid your auctions. Not a smart move.
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