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uniship
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Has anybody seen a recent picture of Mark McGwire? I heard he lost a ton of weight - I would be interested in seeing the difference from his playing days. Looks like Giambi lost some serious weight this off season. Very interesting.
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Think about adding 20 feet on to every ball you ever hit in baseball. Any ball that was within 10 feet of the warning track, hit the wall, or was caught by the wall would now be a home run - what would your numbers look like. Also, think of how many pitched you got jammed inside with and now you could get the bat head out to pull the ball? How about being able to wait a fraction of a second longer to see the pitch? Big difference my friends.
As far as McGwire let me ask you this? How many people who are very active when they are younger put on weight and get fat as they get older and less active? Now wouldn't Mcgwire be less active after he is done playing and tend to gain weight like the rest of the population? Why would he lose the reported 50 pounds when he is less active and burning far fewer calories? You be the judge.
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" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
and was able to use training to improve seeing the ball...the thing looked like a beachball coming
in! Heck Bonds was the same way...back in 01 he thought to himself "self, if I work really hard in the
off season and lift weights and hire my own massuse, I will be able to see the ball much better
and then be able to crank 73 out a season!
Im sick of people coming on here and telling me that these GREAT athletes are juicing! Giambi hits
the weights one year and suddenly is looking twice the size and now everyone yells roids! You
are underestimating the work ethic of the major league baseball player! They have worked
very hard all their life! many of them making 2 dollars a hour in single A ball! These guys know
what it is like to be poor! You think they like it when you have to pay 8 bucks for a hot dog? They
feel your pain! Sure they MAKE a lot of money...but they SPEND a lot of money too!
My point is, none of these guys would EVER take short cuts. They are hard workers and would
NEVER disappoint the fans like that. Mac and Sosa both worked out together in 97 and spotted
each other in the weight room, hence the shattering of Maris' old record. I can guarentee you
that roids had NOTHING to do with that. Too bad that fat old Babe,drunk Mantle and popsicle
Williams never figured that out. Maybe if they hit the work out room they would of hit 73 a year!
Guys like Mac and Bones are only interested in making sure we are happy with the national pasttime...they
aren't freaking liers and cheaters, they work hard lifting, and thus can see the ball better...like a
beach ball, and then put up the numbers. Its sad that you and losers like Turk Wendell can't
see that!
JS
With all due respect, you are in complete denial. As a former baseball player and weightlifter myself, I absolutely laugh when I hear guys like Bonds deny steroid use. A quick tutorial of what roids do to your frame, face, skull, etc., and the fact that some of these elite baseball players juiced should become as obvious to you as the fact that grass is green and money is too.
Shag
Remember mcgwire his rookie year 49 hr's!!! and he looked like he lifted. if he continued to lift for 15 years he would get to the size he was. Bonds was a skinny twig as a rookie and didnt start getting real big until after the 98 season when mcgwire wowed us all.
I played ball until i was 22 even semipro. I used to be a manager of gold's gym. I am very knowledgeable about steroids. So i agree with what you say. But i dont think mcgwire took steroids. You say your a powerlifter than you will no that creatin can really put strenth and size on you. is that legal in baseball now? It is not in football. There are a lot of supplements that they sell that arent steroids that are almost as potent.
Joe Stalin sorry to disagree with you on this but id say 20 percent of players were taking the juice. 5-7 percent randomly tested positive last year i just read on espn. here is the article! and it backs my point i bought up on the sports talk board. when i said how do we know that ruth mantle etc.. never took them they have been around for 100 years. they just didnt weight train and look like gorillas back then. STEROIDS CAN MAKE YOU BETTER AT ANYTHING YOU DO AND YOU DONT HAVE TO TRAIN! SO THE SKINNY GUYS CAN BE TAKING IT ALSO TO RUN FASTER ETC.. here is the article from espn saying 5-7 percent of players tested positive last year!
HOUSTON -- Jeff Kent knocked over a few monuments to make a point.
In a newspaper interview, Kent wondered aloud whether some of the game's hallowed past stars -- such as Lou Gehrig or Babe Ruth -- might have used performance-enhancing drugs.
He said Friday he wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just merely noting that there's no way to know either way.
"People are so pinned on the era now versus the era then," Kent said. "How do we know about then? Do we really know about then? I think we're starting to understand and learn more facts about now, so everybody's trying to relate the records broken, the way ballplayers are bigger and badder and better than ever now, but how do we know about then?
"We never really tested, so that was my reference. I apologize to all the Babe Ruth fans out there, but geez, I was just trying to make a point."
Kent's initial comments on the subject appeared in Friday's editions of the Houston Chronicle, when he asked whether it can be proven that past players didn't use some steroid-like substances, such as equine steroids.
The issue has loomed over baseball since 5-7 percent of the players anonymously tested last season had positive results. That triggered the start of testing with penalties this year. A first positive test would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000.
Also, Barry Bonds, Kent's former teammate on the San Francisco Giants, and New York Yankees first baseman Jason Giambi were called in December before a federal grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Cooperative.
Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson, admitted to giving steroids to several players and was one of four men with ties to the BALCO charged this month with distributing steroids.
Kent calls the problems a "pure embarrassment" for baseball, though he also lamented the rampant speculation about who might be cheating.
"I think that's wrong for the media to point fingers at one big-chested guy versus a skinny guy: `He did it, he didn't do it,'" Kent said.
Then again, he acknowledged it doesn't add up when almost every player denies taking such substances.
"For people to sit back and say, 'I didn't do it,' well hell, there's about 10 percent of the players who are doing it, and that's a shame. There should be more integrity in this game, and integrity is that you don't cheat."
And for those Ruth backers who might have gotten offended?
"Wah," Kent said.
<< <i>I heard he lost like 50 pounds. >>
I quit eating carbs and lost 35 lbs in about 3 months.
(without even really exercising)
so it seems perfectly normal that
without daily weight training
(but possibly running or walking)
and watching what he eats
that could result in a 50 pound weight loss.
plus remember that he stopped using
ANDRO when everyone got so ticked off about it.
no biggie.
<< <i>Colorado Rockies reliever Turk Wendell said this week it was "clear just seeing his body" that Bonds was taking steroids. >>
Isn't that something novel - a pitcher complaining about a hitter!!!!
Mike
As far as Bonds and Sosa just look at the size of their freaking heads and you can tell. I heard Bonds hat size went up a 1/2 size! IMO I think that they used HGH and not roids, and in their minds they did not use roids. I don't believe conventional tests can pick up HGH and many Mr Olympia contestants use it for size without getting caught - nice gut Mr Olympia "Ronnie I don't use roids cause I am a cop and get tested Coleman". Maybe that is why you look pregnant on stage.
I think MLB is very worried that the HR numbers will be way down this year which will only prove that what everyone is saying is true. As far as the 5-7% positive I think that it was accurate and here is why. About 50% of the players are pitchers and I don't think many if any are using them. That leaves 50% of the players who are position players. That means that 10-15% of the people that could be taking them got caught, and this is when they knew ahead of time they were going to be tested. I will bet that if they did testing in mid December when most players are training hard and using a cycle that they would catch 2-3 times the number they did.
My powerlifting career would have been a lot better if my thighmaster had not broken a month before the contest
"
" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
Thighmaster joke??? LOLOLOLOL!!
I couldnt agree more though! another guy to look at is Jeff Bagwell his jawbone is worse then all of them.
I talked about the home run issue on my post on the sports talk board. My question was how many seats will they fill if the league leader had 35 hr's in mid september? Most people goto the park to see the cover knocked off the ball!! I pray we dont see 35 hr's this year leading the league then its a done deal steroids was the key!!
And i will stand and agree with what Jeff Kent was talking about. Steroids have been around for 100 years. there was no weight training back then so they didnt look like gorillas. I used to see guys bench lets say 315 for 10 reps that weighed 225. then in the same gym i would see someone that weighed 185 skinny but had muscles do the same thing. but no one would say he was juicing bc he was to skinny!
But you can definently tell by looking at there face structure jawbone. if they going bald. nagging injuries of the joints. etc..
The guys that I train with some of them are world class powerlifters and they admit to using the stuff which I have no problem with. I think people would be somewhat more receptive to a guy that says "yeah I am taking it, so what?" Of course it is very easy to tell that they are using it when they bench the same as me one month and the next they beating me by 30 lbs on 3 board presses. That and the 900 lb squats give them away!
For sale: (1) Tony Little Gazelle trainer. Used only once. Call Chubby for details.
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" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
some guys have obviously been juicing in the past, some of these guys don't look juiced up this year. i'm curious what the season will bring.
i'm a huge yankee fan, but not particularly fond of a couple of sluggers on the team. if these guys hit 50 homers a piece this year they'll just say they saw better pitches with a-rod in the line up.
Read into the Hitler thing and wwI and wwII. He gave the german army steroids to make them mean and crazy!! so there is your concreate evidence that they have been around since the 1920's !
"
" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
Bicep Curls=Improved Eyesight
what part of that is unclear?
JS
PS
LOL
<< <i>Joestalin,
With all due respect, you are in complete denial. As a former baseball player and weightlifter myself, I absolutely laugh when I hear guys like Bonds deny steroid use. A quick tutorial of what roids do to your frame, face, skull, etc., and the fact that some of these elite baseball players juiced should become as obvious to you as the fact that grass is green and money is too.
Shag >>
dude, im pretty sure i sensed some sarcasm in Joes post..
Guess I should pay closer attention. In my defense, I was pretty darn tired at the time. My bad.
Shag
MLB did that in '68 by 5 inches.
So, if someone takes roids but does not train they get bigger, stronger and become a better athlete? I have heard that several times now.
And now the Babe took em ...
shagrotn77@aol.com
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I have been working out for almost 20 years and trained during the season and off-season as well. During the season with games, practice, pre-game bp and drills.... it is hard to find time to train. Also, the recovery ability with all of that activity makes it hard to keep size and strength. I used to lose about 5-8 pounds from the beginning to the end of the season. For these guys to be gaining that kind of size and keeping it all year something is up. Everyone saw Bonds at the AS game back in 97-98 when he was still with Pittsburgh and he liked look a shorter Manute Bol and then voila!
I think the real telling sign is that none of these guys is really denying it with any fervor. If I was accused of something like that and was innocent I would be going ape and hiring a lawyer and proving it to the world.
"
" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"
"If you take roids and don't train they won't do squat"
I have to disagree on that. i lived in a 5 bedroom house at college at usc. i had a bunch of roomates. 2 were jucing. one was huge and trained every day. the other drank beer lifted once a week rode his bike to school hit on women etc.. the one that lifted once a week was shredded. they 2 of them use to argue and compete all the time. but the skinny kid would beat him in races., and was the better athlete. anyway my point is taking roids and lifting is not the only reason to take them. you can take them and train just by walking, and see results.
First - Does everyone here think that Brady Anderson took roids for that one year that he hi 50 homers and then got off every year after that, especially when the talk of steroid testing was not even close? If not, how do you explain that massive year?
Second - I've asked this before. If Alex Rodriguez can hit 57 homers 2 years ago with his frame and build ( obviously not taking roids ), then why would it be impossible to believe that someone bigger like Bonds, Sosa or Giambi couldn't hit 10-15 more without taking steroids?
Third - Pretty much up to the late 80's, your HR league leader had 30-37 homers. We evolved into the 45-50 era with guys like Griffey Jr, Juan Gonzalez, and Jim Thome leading the way. Currently we have had 45-65 lead the league each year. How come no one questioned the average increase in homers or associated it with steroids after the first jump from an average of 35 leading the league to about 42-50 leading the league in the mid 90's? Is it just because Maris's record was broken?
Fourth - I have heard Joe Stalin say on more than one occasion that Bonds definitley takes steroids because he hit 73 in 2001, and then he hit only 46 the next year, and like 45 last year. He mentioned the big dropoff from 2001 ( 73 homers ), to 2002 ( 46 homers ). Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody was talking steroids seriously until late last year. Why wouldn't Bonds have hit 70 or more in 2002 or last year if he was still juicing it until just recently? If he was on them in 2001 when he cracked out 73, what would make you think he got off them in 2002? There was no heat at that point? Plus, most claim that he was indeed on them up until just recently. That's what I don't get.
Did anybody mention steroids when Cecil Fielder hit 51 homers back in '91 or so? That was unheard of at that time. He was a large man, that's why he hit so many. He wasn't muscular too much. Maybe that's why steroids weren't brought up. This day and age the workouts are a hell of alot more serious and the game has evolved a bit more into the weight room approach. If you are already a good contact hitter, and then you can add muscle to your swing by working out, it should equate into alot more homers.
Oh, one last question that never seems to get answered - Does steroids help increase your average? Bonds hit .370 2 years ago while "on steroids". How do you explain that? Was this a result of steroids also? Boy that is one super drug then. It helps increase your power and your ability to hit the ball??? Cool. Maybe they should test Ichiro for that matter, right?
All in all, I will not be completely shocked to hear that several players were on the juice, including Bonds. However, I do think it's pretty sad for people to discredit someone's accomplishments on the field because they may have took the weight lifting approach over the past few years. If Bonds hit 40-50 this year, will everyone believe that he was never on them? That's what he hit the past 2 years while everyone thought he was on them, right?
Let's look at other possibilities to be fair. New parks with shorter fences, juiced balls, etc... Remember, McGwire also hit 49 homers as a pencil necked rookie back in 1987. I think if you worked out for the next 10 years or so, you should be able to add 15 or so more homers to your season.
TheRoach
<< <i>For these guys to be gaining that kind of size and keeping it all year something is up. Everyone saw Bonds at the AS game back in 97-98 when he was still with Pittsburgh and he liked look a shorter Manute Bol and then voila!
>>
Bonds was not with Pittsburgh in '97-98 at an All Star game. Bonds has been with San Fran since 1993. Not quite sure who you were watching, but it doesn't help your case much.
TheRoach
I would say yes to brady anderson and cecil feilder taking them!! you see 2 totaly different build type guys and same results. and your question on steroids increasing your avg.? Answer is yes. i have done extensive research on roids since i was in 2nd grade in school. i am the one that keeps bringing up wwII with hitler giving them to the army to make them mean and crazy. So my answer to avg is yes it will make you hit for better avg. even the skinny not so powerful guys taking it, they will hit the ball that would normally get eat up by the shortstop!! but on roids it would fly through there for a single.
iN MY OPIONION IF YOU ARE GOING TO TEST FOR ROIDS THEN EVERY SINGLE PLAYER HAS TO BE TESTED, BC THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL WHO IS ON THEM. THERE IS THE OBVIOUS ONES BY BEING BIG AND THERE FACE STARTS TO LOOK LIKE AN APE ETC.. BUT THE LITTLE GUYS CAN BE TAKING THEM ALSO.
So you think they only took it for like 1 year and got off? I gathered some interseting stats you'll see below.
Jim Thome '98 - 30 HR 141 SO
'99 - 33 HR 171 SO
'00 37 HR 171 SO
'01 - 49 HR 185 SO
'02 - 52 HR 139 SO
'03 - 47 HR 182 SO
This guy must be on roids since 2001, right? Look at the increase in power since 2000. Meanwhile he struck out even more in the years that his power went up. That's odd.
Cecil Fielder '90 51 HR 182 SO
'91 44 HR 151 SO
'92 35 HR 151 SO
'93 30 HR 125 SO
'94 28 HR 110 SO
If this guy took roids, why did he get off so soon? His power numbers decreased while his strikeouts did also. You would think that it would be the other way around. I don't get it. Don't blame age, because if that had anything to do with it, Bonds wouldn't be doing what he is doing since he is on roids and will turn 39 this year, right?
Is Arod on roids? C'mon, he hit 57 2 years ago!!! That makes him guilty, right? Oh, you mean he needs to be muscular to get accused? Oh, I see how it works. Huh.
TheRoach
your quote "Is Arod on roids? C'mon, he hit 57 2 years ago!!! That makes him guilty, right? Oh, you mean he needs to be muscular to get accused? Oh, I see how it works. Huh" If you read my post im the one that says test the skinny guys also!!!!! and yes bonds is declining now bc he is getting older now. bonds wont ever reach 50 home runs again. unless he takes the juice!
Ok you watch wrestling?? look at these guys there are gorilla's! brock lesnar, goldberg, scott steiner sean o'haire etc.. all huge all take juice!! Then look at billy kidman eddie guerrero rey misterio all take juice also. see the size difference?? Its a huge difference but they are all taking it!!! some taking testostorone and some are taking primobolan! 2 different drugs one makes you look like a water holding elephnat and one makes you look like and cut up actor. both improve your speed power and jumping ability. slvnumber2 will agree with me on this.
I told all my freinds back in the early 90's heck late 80's when i watched lenny dykstra. i said he is jucing!!! they all said i was crazy now they saying i was right!! cecil feilder and brady anderson are a great example you made!! and you wait and see until mike lupica or some other sports writer brings that point up! i have been saying brady anderson for years now ever since he hit that 50 hr's!!
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Anderson
Yr. HR AB AB/HR
92 21 623 29.67
93 13 560 43.07
94 12 453 37.75
95 16 554 34.63
96 50 579 11.58
97 18 590 32.78
98 18 479 26.61
99 24 564 23.5
00 19 506 26.63
So does this prove Brady Anderson was on 'roids? I don't think so. AS we get older,we get stronger(to a certain point).I think 1996 was a freak year. But notice his HR/AB ratios were better as he got older.Bill James does some good studies on these things.
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Yr. HR AB AB/HR
86 16 413 25.80
87 25 551 22.04
88 24 538 22.42
89 19 580 30.52
90 33 519 15.73
91 25 510 20.40
92 34 473 13.91
93 46 539 11.71
94 37 391 10.57
95 33 506 15.33
96 42 517 12.31
97 40 532 13.30
98 37 552 14.91
99 34 355 10.44
00 49 480 9.80
01 73 476 6.52
02 46 403 8.76
03 45 390 8.67
Bonds #'s get a lot better in his late 30's. Is he on 'roids? Good chance,or is a freak of nature?
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Yr. HR AB AB/HR
90 51 573 11.23
91 44 624 14.18
92 35 594 16.97
93 30 573 19.10
94 28 425 15.17
95 31 494 15.93
96 39 591 15.15
I think in 1990,The pitchers didn't know How to pitch Cecil,so he had a good ratio. Once Cecil got older his ratios evened out(94-96). 1990 was Cecil's first chance to play everyday,and he made the most of it.
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MLB knew this was going on and they also knew they were losing fans to other sports leagues and had to generate interest via the new softball rules hit 6 out a night games. The fans were leaving after the strike in '94 and they were only able to get baseball back with the Sosa/McGwire HR chase and the Ripken streak.
Kuhlmann - my knowledge of how roids work is by research and by training with guys that use them, and I am not 100% on how they would work with no lifting or workouts. That would almost be like eating a perfect diet and never working out - it would not get you stronger or in better shape, but would set you up to succeed if you did. If the one guy just worked out once a week that is a lot different than being sedentary and would provide some stimulus.
"
" Go ahead and get your fancy barely visible cell phones that get the internet, play DVD's, and can speak 5 languages. As for me and my Atari cell phone it works, it weighs 7 pounds, it is 14 inches long, and it looks like I could call in an airstrike from a remote desert it is so large!"