Are grading companies biased?

coinfool

Peaceful Greetings to all coin lovers everywhere. I have a question for you about "no name--no reputation (well maybe horrible reputation) grading companies that are popping up everywhere. Let's say you had a really high grade old coin from one of these companies--theoretically an MS66 of something--pick your coin. If you sent that coin to PCGS or NGC, do you think that they would be biased against the "loser" company and lower the grade, or be fair? Do you think it would be better to break out the coin and have them grade it without the the MS66 bugging them? I'm sure it's been asked before, but I don't get to spend hardly any time here and would like to hear what some of you think--if ya feel up to it. If so thanks. Have a groovy evening, all of you!!

Russ

<< <i>Do you think it would be better to break out the coin and have them grade it >>



Yes.

Russ, NCNE

MICHAELDIXON

Personally, I don't think they are biased. The grade is covered and the graders don't know what it is currently graded. But...I always break them out and send them in raw, regardless of whether it's going back to the same company or not.

nwcs

I think sending a third rate slabbed coin to PCGS or NGC is fine. I'm sure they would look more closely at it, of course. But these are professionals and I doubt they would let their personal biases (whatever they may be) affect their job all that much. If the couldn't do that, I'm sure they wouldn't be good dealers/graders (since most were dealers at one time).

foodude

Personally, I don't think they are biased. The grade is covered and the graders don't know what it is currently graded.

I agree they'll grade it for what they see.

It is, however, easier to grade a raw coin than a coin in a holder. Therefore, if it is a close call (a liner), it may not cross; whereas in if it were cracked out and raw, it has a better chance of crossing, or in some cases upgrading.

I don't know if NGC covers the grade on crossovers or not (i.e., the graders don't know the grade given on the current slab). PCGS covered the current grades in the past, but no longer does so. That is, the graders at PCGS know the current grade of the slab.

I've had a few NGC coins cross to PCGS at the next higher grade. Most either cross at the same grade, or not at all- I usully list a minium crossover grade, sio the reason for most of thjose not crossing is that it doesn't meet the minimum grade I listed.

fcloud

I am one who tends to think there is bias. I sent an NGC MS61 1923-S Mercury Dime to PCGS for crossover with a minimum grade of MS60. They sent the coin back DNC. After looking at it for about a week or so, I cracked it out and sent it to them raw. It came back MS63. I think they could have checked it a bit more carefully. A coin of this quality surely should have made MS60.

Russ

<< <i>The grade is covered and the graders don't know what it is currently graded >>



Not at PCGS it isn't.

Russ, NCNE

Shamika

Russ is correct. PCGS no longer covers the grade. However, I've heard of several coins crossing to higher grades at PCGS.

The real question is "what do you think of the grade"? Do you think it deserves its lofty grade? Be honest!

Russ

<< <i>However, I've heard of several coins crossing to higher grades at PCGS. >>



Yeah, I just had an 1869 Two Cent piece go from NGC MS64RB to PCGS MS65BN. Of course that was after it DNC'd, was cracked out and resubmitted, bodybagged, submitted again and then graded.

Russ, NCNE

RGL

This is not to say that with careful shopping and cherry picking you can't find an accurately graded or even undergraded coin in a junk slab, as rare as those instances might be, but ... we all carry unconscious biases that influence our opinions daily without even bothering to knowingly think about the topic. A PCI, ACG, NTC slab may just trigger a Pavlovian response in a grader to look a little harder for problems or to downgrade a coin because of its plastic tomb. Most smart buyers consider third party junk slabs as raw coins anyway, so crack away ... I turned an $8 ACG PR-69 DCAM 1961 Jeff into a PR-69 CAM (22/0) at PCGS, but you can bet they never saw that sucker in that slab.

dorkkarl

your best bet is to crack it out & leave it out. looks better that way.

K S

291fifth

I know that I personally have a strong bias against the third string grading companies. I have cracked many of them out and sent them in to one of the majors only to have at least 75% downgraded. I would rather purchase the coins raw than see them in some of the third string companies holders.


Are the majors biased? Only to the extent that they become more cautious when grading such coins. There is usually a good reason why coins in third string holders were there in the first place.

Barry

I trust a raw coin more than a bottom-feeder slabbed coin. Raw is raw. A coin slabbed by a pseudo-grading service is either for a problem coin or for deception/overgrading.

keets

i think we need to look at crossovers a bit more realistically, maybe from the services point of view. by looking at plenty of scratched up holders, it can sometimes be difficult to correctly assess a coin, especially when liability is involved. i don't really blame them for erring on the side of caution. what would they do if they crack a coin out and discover it isn't the MS** grade it should have crossed at, but MS** minus 1 point?? they only have two options then, holder it overgraded or return it raw with some type of compensation. either way, they end up with a PO'd submitter.

and remember, we want them to do all this in approximately 8.436 seconds!!!!!!!!! PCGS seems to be in a constant no-win situation.

personally, i agree with Michael Dixon, send the coin in raw. after all, you're certain it should cross or else you wouldn't whine when it didn't, correct?? we wouldn't like to have-our-cake-and-eat-too, or would we??

al h.

coinfool

Hey everyone, thanks alot for all of the insights. I gathered that the general consensus is that it is just flat out better to look at a raw coin than try to grade it through a thick, scratched plastic holder (I LOL when one of you called it a "plastic tomb". Anyway, I appreciate all you had to say--it learned this coinfool a bit more. Cheers!

MacCrimmon

<< <i>Yeah, I just had an 1869 Two Cent piece go from NGC MS64RB to PCGS MS65BN. Of course that was after it DNC'd, was cracked out and resubmitted, bodybagged, submitted again and then graded. >>



Why am I laughing? That sounds like I wrote it.

coinkat

Yes.

Just a word of advise from the cheap seats... don't get too caught up in the crack out and/or cross over grading game. At the end of the day, it really is not worth it. It is still the same coin and whether PCGS NGC or ANACS graded the coin, the real test is whether you like it and you, as a collector, are satisfied with the coin. The plastic SHOULD ALWAYS BE SECONDARY.