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Rant thread to dealers and especially auction houses, pic quality does matter & makes a huge dif

barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
The 1856 large cent in pcgs 65 r & b in the internet only sale of July 29th from Heritage and the same coin from Wayne Herndon [where I bought it from.]
Wayne takes good pictures.

Could someone please post both obverse and reverse pics. from both Heritage and Wayne Herndons site here ? I want to show my new coin and send a message about what a difference proper pics make in coin values.

Thanks,

Les
The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.

Comments

  • FC57CoinsFC57Coins Posts: 9,140 ✭
    imageimage


    This it?

    imageimage
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Les,

    Why not just download the image to your hard drive? image

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    Yes Frank,

    Thats the first set of pictures that I wanted, now could you post the pics of the same coin from the July 29 th Heritage internet only sale please ?

    The numbers on the holder are easy to spot even though it doesn't look like the same coin.

    Thanks,

    Les
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    Now that both coins are listed, please look at the pics for yourself and ask yourself if you think Heritage is doing the best job it can for it's customers, I think not.

    Heritage offers many valuable services to its customers including me, but I can't except that they are improving their coin photography yet.

    If it wasn't for the carbon spot near the stars to the right of the portrate, I wouldn't have guessed it was the same coin without the numbers on the holder.

    Thanks Frank. And again my Thanks to Wayne for a nice picture of a nice coin.

    Les `
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • GeminiGemini Posts: 3,085 ✭
    I agree with you Les they have been needing some major help in the imagery department for a very long time.
    image
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    ttt
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    ttt

    This thread is a couple days old but I edited the title to show how I wanted the point to come accross.

    If you have other contrasting pic's of the same coin to illustrate my point feel free to do so. Inacurate pic;s affect both buyers and sellers of coins.

    If I'm buying a coin I want the most coin for my money [accurate pics].

    If I'm selling a coin I want my best coins to look to prospective buyers/bidders as close to being their as possible, again [accurate pics].

    Please look at the difference between Heritages pics and Wayne Herndons pic of the same coin that I bought BECAUSE of the better picture.

    Les
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Hey this sounds like a fun thread. I keep pictures of everything. I'm glad you wanted pictures where the seller's pictures look worse than the coin actually does. I have plenty of board dealers that tweak pictures which look nothing like the actual coin.


    Here's a kinda pretty endroll from eBay. I got a steal on it.
    image

    A Barber Dime from eBay.
    image

    A toned Peace from eBay. Paid next to nothing. DDR VAM 3.
    image

    A toned Barber Proof from Superior Galleries. Got a steal on it.
    image

    A weird toned Morg from Heritage. Probably stole it too, don't remember.
    image
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • wjd283wjd283 Posts: 1,406
    Man,that's one strange Morgan.
    Heritage must be going the "economy pics" route due to their extremely low prifit margin.image
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pics do make a difference. There's no question about it.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • puffpuff Posts: 1,475
    The only way I buy from Heritage is on approval because their pictures suck, and I have told them this many times..... If you really want to see a joke check this 1944 ms67 walker out...... I personally had this coin sent to me after having it described as being a high end coin for the grade, (as their ad says in description), and was shocked to see all of the marks that I was told was not there, and the luster is no better than a ms66 at most! The coin was returned.... You can view a larger version which really shows the marks that weren't supposed to be there at the website.
    image
  • gsaguygsaguy Posts: 2,425 ✭
    Les,

    You ought to see what Heritage does to beautifully toned Morgans! Terrible for the seller, great for the buyer if he knows what to look for.

    GSAGUY
    image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They can make Merc Dimes look like poo also. A bad deal for the seller but a great deal for the buyer that will take a shot at a coin that they think looks okay. Heritage first. My quick pictures second.

    image
    image

    image
    image

    Ken
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Anybody ever notice that Heritage will sell a coin on their cheap internet auctions with a crappy picture for next to nothing, and they must buy them themselves from the cosignors because later you see the same coin with a better picture in one of their better auctions?
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,780 ✭✭✭✭
    Heritage does a lousy job capturing luster.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,272 ✭✭✭✭✭
    amazing, everyone here is kocking Heritage without a word about the atrocious embarrassing B&M catalog I got yesterday - why that catalog makes heritage look like a queen. While I agree Heritage can improve big time - overall they have done a pretty good job. perhaps many of us should get the message out to them in a concereted effort without bashing - as they are a valuable asset to the industry and that includes you and I - each and everyone of us I believe uses Heritage in one way or another practiucally daily.

    B&M however has made some coins I was looking at into a puke session. When they first came out on the web - I vomited, now with the catalog in hand I am speechless. Makes ANR look super but then they lean towards NGC too much - not too smart.

    JMHO




    Marc
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    <<<amazing, everyone here is kocking Heritage without a word about the atrocious embarrassing B&M catalog I got yesterday>>>
    If somebody will be so kind as to post some B&M pictures we'll bash them too.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Something for folks to keep in mind...

    The task of properly imaging coins is very difficult and time consuming. Given that the numbers of hours in a day is a constant, the more you have to image, the less the quality of each image will be.

    That, of course, doesn't obviate the importance of having good images, But, as with all businesses, there are trade-offs. And, if a company makes the wrong trade-off decision ... well, that is just too bad for that company! The market can be awfully unforgiving at times.

    On the matter of Heritage specifically, I think folks should realize that they are a highly successful company. That means that they are doing far more correctly than not. And, that doesn't mean that they don't have room for improvement. Once again, though, it is a matter of trade-offs. In this case, they choose to improve the imaging quality in other ways: blowup, re-center and I think even swivel capabilities. So, I believe Heritage does care about their images. They just chose to deal with it differently.

    Also, I think Heritage has many smaller units within. Each probably has its own cost center and must justify its own profitability. The retail and EI units may be forced to operate differently due to internal cost/labor constraints. This is purely speculative on my part...

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • puffpuff Posts: 1,475


    << <i><<<amazing, everyone here is kocking Heritage without a word about the atrocious embarrassing B&M catalog I got yesterday>>>
    If somebody will be so kind as to post some B&M pictures we'll bash them too. >>



    Good point Dog97........ Besides I have never bought anything from B&M!image
  • XpipedreamRXpipedreamR Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
    This is gross incompetence on the part of Heritage. Isn't presenting a product in the best possible way a basic business concept?

    They're screwing their consignors. Apparently, though, the consignors don't care, because I would imagine that most of them have seen Heritage's pictures, and don't care enough to complain or sell their coins elsewhere.




    So I guess it's not a problem!


    image
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
    This was not meant to be a bash Heritage thread, if thats the way you took it you misunderstood my intent.

    I used my latest coin purchase as an example and it happened to be a coin I thought I remembered seeing in a Heritage auction because of some "identifiers" on the coin, when I put my new coin in the "my collection" on the Heritage site, I searched the auction archive for prices realized of that date and found the same coin that I bought from Wayne in a July 22nd internet only sale from Heritage.

    I agree that Heritage provides many valuable services to the collecting public and I've used most of them.

    This thread was meant to illustrate how important accurate pictures are when buying or selling a coin with the pictures of that coin being their only connection to what gets bid.

    I love it when I get a bargin because of a bad pic, I hate it when I get fooled the other way because of a bad pic, but I'd give up the bargin to know that the coin in the pic looks as close as possible to the coin in hand.

    I don't by that large dealers or auction houses can't use better lighting and take a few extra seconds to improve from the examples shown here, it would benefit every one if that happened. If a kid in high school can do it, so can a multi million dollar buisness, [right Jeremy].

    Les
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Well I'm not bashing anybody, just keeping on topic which is rant thread about auction house pictures.
    I just love sellers that use poor pictures because it keeps the competition away! Now the sellers on eBay that used bad pictures for that Morg & Peace I can understand because they are just average people with no special skills trying to sell some stuff for some extra $$ to put in their pocket.
    On the other hand, a company like Heritage or Superior who claims to be top notch auction houses, and what do they specialize in? Yes, COINS! are supposed to have top shelf numismaticians, staff, managers, dept heads, etc and they should have somebody working for them that can take a decent picture of a coin. Making a high quality picture that is a true representation of a coin, especially a toned one, is no easy task but a multi million $$ auction house that specializes in coin sales on the internet where pictures are very important should be able to do better than providing a coin picture that looks like a BLACK SLUG.
    Won't have to worry about me cosigning coins to these clowns but I'll sure keep on BUYING CHEAP from them.
    Just look at all the threads on this board titled "I just got a camera, opinions wanted on pictures" or something similiar and funny thing, these average joes that have never used a camera or scanner ask a few questions and BOOM!! They're posting pretty decent pictures.
    There's sumpin wrong with that picture! image
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do not take my post as a bash. Man I love the Heritage pictures. Some really nice Mercs have been purchased just because others were afraid to take a shot at coins that looked a little pukey from the pictures.

    Marc mentioned the upcoming B&M sale. Those pictures in the Merc section of the sale are complete junk. Some of the photos make the coin look like it was ran over by a train and then slabbed.

    Ken
  • spy88spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭
    I agree 100% with dog on his post.

    I sent Heritage 30 PCGS PR Jeffersons for their Bullet Sale 2+ weeks ago. From PR67 to PR70DCam. When I looked at the pics of them, you couldn't tell a gem from a DCam. The only thing a potential bidder had to go on was the slab and a accurate discription. With their commish taken out, I still lost over 35% of my cost in the sales (and not because I bought them high). While I can not hold them responsible for that loss (legally), I do hold them responsible for their irresponsible representational scans/pics. I know that BOTH Heritage and myself would have benefitted from accurate photos.
    Cases in point. Do you think this is an accurate picture/scan of a 1938 PR67?
    Obverse Reverse
    How about this 1971-S PR69DCam (pop-top)?
    Obverse Reverse
    And this 1962 PR69DCam?
    Obverse Reverse

    XR, believe me the consignors care!!! But Heritage is a third party acting as a go-between for sellers to buyers. They get their money no matter how well the seller makes out. But to short-change themselves and the seller lacks common sense. I could easily have sent them a SanDisk with excellent pics of my PR set, but they insist on using their own and you have no recourse.

    If I had it to do over, I would have probably done better selling them on eBay with my own pics!!!!
    Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.
  • coinchallengedcoinchallenged Posts: 132
    B&M's catalog says Tom Mulvaney was the photo director but there's no way he did the photos in that catalog or on the web. He's much better than that. Probably the worse catalog photos I've seen in a very long time.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EVP raises a good point. What I do re bidding on any coin at a major auction is that if I cannot personally see the lot myself, someone I trust looks at it for me, and I always get a lot consultation from a numismatist who works for the auction company. If I cannot do this, I do not bid on the coin.

    More often than not, I have been told that the lot was nothing special (or worse) by the particular numismatist. I believe I have been treated fairly. I have never won a lot after a candid discussion with a numismatist at the auction house that disappointed me.

    OTOH, if you are bidding on a coin solely based on its image, you are in essence bidding on it sight-unseen.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • spy88spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭
    Pictures added to post third up from this one.
    Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    WHOA!!! Those look like BLACK SLUGS there, spy88!! I thought 69DCams were sposed to be white & frosty. grrrr.......

    Elcontador says: What I do re bidding on any coin at a major auction is that if I cannot personally see the lot myself, someone I trust looks at it for me.........If I cannot do this, I do not bid on the coin.

    That's a great option to have Elcontador but for lots of us that is impossible and part of the reason I don't bid on much expensive material over the internet. I have to depend on crappy pictures to make me decide whether or not to let go of my hard earned $$$.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,272 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Les,

    not to fret - I had no problem with the thread per se - just letting out some steam at B&Mimage besides you think anyone got back to me regarding clearer descriptions or photos...............of course not.













    Marc

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