Beware Raw Ebay Coins (Pics)
Sequitur
Posts: 1,195
Last week I purposely won an Ebay auction on a raw 1946 Lincoln cent in which I believed the photo was doctored and the description was suspect. Why? Wanted to test myself and, in some strange way, confirm why I never make a significant purchase sight unseen. Plus, the auction + postage fees cost me $4.50 (and I used my non-sniping account so I don't care if I get into a retaliatory neg war).
Anyway, the seller described the Lincoln as an MS67, "close to absolute perfect. Sharply struck, and lack of marks or spots on this fine coin." The seller's photo did not inspire confidence:
Well here's what arrived this weekend:
What a pig of a coin. Worthless.
While I thought the auction too good to be true, it still was somewhat surprising the degree to which bogus Ebay raw coin sellers will prostitute themselves for a buck. I left negative feedback, stating the photo was doctored, the description a lie. The seller's response: "coin was as described i do not alter photos . . . ." I'll leave it to the fine members here to determine who is telling the truth.
I'm not returning the coin. It's going to sit in a cardboard 2x2 as a potent reminder why one simply should not bid on raw coins sight unseen from unknown sellers.
Anyway, the seller described the Lincoln as an MS67, "close to absolute perfect. Sharply struck, and lack of marks or spots on this fine coin." The seller's photo did not inspire confidence:
Well here's what arrived this weekend:
What a pig of a coin. Worthless.
While I thought the auction too good to be true, it still was somewhat surprising the degree to which bogus Ebay raw coin sellers will prostitute themselves for a buck. I left negative feedback, stating the photo was doctored, the description a lie. The seller's response: "coin was as described i do not alter photos . . . ." I'll leave it to the fine members here to determine who is telling the truth.
I'm not returning the coin. It's going to sit in a cardboard 2x2 as a potent reminder why one simply should not bid on raw coins sight unseen from unknown sellers.
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Comments
Care to divluge the seller?
Russ, NCNE
Sadly, after I left negative feedback, there were a dozen more positives for him. He's got a 99.5% positive rating, which is disgusting.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Stolen Photo?
I thought that at first, too. But look at the hit on the cheek and the marks on Lincoln's jacket. I think it's the same coin. The seller denies this.
Edited: Peetie, that's a pretty good find. Perhaps gemcoins2003 did swipe that photo to pawn his/her junk. Well, point was to confirm that if a raw coin looks too good to be true, it probably is.
He seems to have plenty of happy customers with high feedback, not a bunch of newbies, so maybe there is some other explanation. In any case, why not simply return it for a refund if you're not satisfied? You certainly have this option as stated in the auction.
As I said, I purposely bid on this auction because I thought it was suspect. I thought the photo looked doctored, the description way too good to be true, and a 1946 MS67 cent should be worth a lot more than I paid. I wanted to test my instincts on this one and confirm why I never make a significant raw coin purchase on Ebay.
Maybe it got damaged during shipping?
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since 8/1/6
<< <i>He seems to have plenty of happy customers with high feedback, not a bunch of newbies, so maybe there is some other explanation >>
It's called fear of retaliation. He sells a lot of cheap stuff, so most probably figure it's just not worth risking it for a small amount. Sequitur
is to be commended for trying to warn bidders.
Russ, NCNE
I received the coins (about 4 of them I think) that, with shipping, was ~$22 or so. I emailed him when I got them...they were not even close to MS66+ like he stated...more like MS61 or so. He also used big old staples that likely scratched a coin or two in shipping....I emailed and told him that too.
he offered to compensate me with some additional coins(misc and not asked for by me)...I said that I would give them a try.
They were even worse..he sent 5 or so coins and only 1 looked good.
Anyway, I got 100% of my money back...including shipping and handling both ways, without an argument. So, I didn't neg him, but I haven't left feedback either.
He may have some nice coins and the prices are cheap, but I haven't even looked back at his auctions......
Let me just add that none of the coins that I received were as ugly as the 1946 wheatie shown in this thread.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
What crock!
He also sells lots of cheap stuff, and also can't grade to save his life. When I first started, I bought a few from him and they were absolute garbage. Since then, his feedback has been catching up to him.
Gemcoins2003 is still pretty new. Sooner or later, his feedback will also reflect his practices.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>He seems to have plenty of happy customers with high feedback, not a bunch of newbies, so maybe there is some other explanation >>
It's called fear of retaliation. He sells a lot of cheap stuff, so most probably figure it's just not worth risking it for a small amount. Sequitur
is to be commended for trying to warn bidders.
Russ, NCNE >>
I didn't know you were afraid of anything, Russ
I believe it is the same coin. If you look closely at the top photo, you can see the slice on Abe's cheek.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Even though this seller doesn't have a lot of negative feedback, what is there is enough to make me immediately hit the back button:
Negatives Received
On this auction, I'm sorry, the seller deserved a nice big fat red negative. Totally misleading images, and sending a MS60 coin as a MS67. I don't care about a return policy, this coin isn't worth a dollar, and if the buyer returned it he would probably still eat shipping both ways.
Edited to add: Good for you, left him what he deserved.
<< <i>Auction in question. >>
Eric,
Actually, it's this auction.
Exact same image, though.
Russ, NCNE
I feel bad for that bidder -- I won the bogus auction on purpose, esp. since it was relatively late and it was cheap.
We need to do something about this criminal.
Edited: This means THREE people have been hit with the same scam on this coin, all in the span of a couple weeks. And I'll bet gemcoins2003 is doing this over and over with all kinds of junk coins. At least I knew what I was getting into -- I sent links to these other two bidders.
K S
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
While this forum serves as a great resource to collectors, I don't think anyone nominated us the Ebay police.
I guess my take on this whole thing is just a little different from everyone else.
Caveat emptor...
There are honest and dishonest people out there everywhere...why is it your job to try and make the world a safer place?
Nobody promised any of us that the world was all milk and honey and love and joy...
I saw the auction, I smelled a rat, and wanted to see how it turned out (for a miniscule amount of money). So I did indeed purposely win an auction I thought was suspect. Only after I got the coin, and saw just how deceptive the photos and description were, I decided to leave a negative. I would agree the outcome was a fait accompli.
I don't think anyone nominated us the Ebay police.
No, but since I've joined the forum, I've become increasingly dismayed with all the fraudulent junk floating about on Ebay. Why shouldn't we be proactive?
why is it your job to try and make the world a safer place?
If not us, then who? Why shouldn't we expose the fraudsters -- it's good for the hobby and individual collectors, no?
Nobody promised any of us that the world was all milk and honey and love and joy...
What does that have to do with exposing fraud and taking action to thwart it? I encourage you to look at this thread -- more people should be doing this.
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I guess what I am saying is that the coin hobby (and just about everything) is full of fraud, dishonest sellers, and people who just don't know any better. That is not limited to Ebay. You can find ripoffs at every coin shop, and even at shows, maybe even on this forum (gasp!!!! Shock!!!) Fools and their money are soon parted. I have been a fool a few times, especially when I first started collecting. I learned my lessons, and so will others. It is not up to us to try and teach every person to read all about coins before they buy them and check up on the dealers and so on...that is the responsibility of the individual.
<< <i>What a pig of a coin. Worthless >>
Well, not exactly "worthless" - it's still worth 1 cent!
edited to add: BTW - I think posts like this are excellent as it points out those ebay sellers with whom you need to be careful if you're going to buy from them.
Monstavet
<< <i>I guess what I am saying is that the coin hobby (and just about everything) is full of fraud, dishonest sellers, and people who just don't know any better. That is not limited to Ebay. You can find ripoffs at every coin shop, and even at shows, maybe even on this forum (gasp!!!! Shock!!!) Fools and their money are soon parted. I have been a fool a few times, especially when I first started collecting. I learned my lessons, and so will others. It is not up to us to try and teach every person to read all about coins before they buy them and check up on the dealers and so on...that is the responsibility of the individual. >>
THe only way we can protect ourselves from those who are fraudulent and dishonest is to expose them. To watch silently allows them to continue to defraud and cheat others. Taking your argument to its logical conclusions means eliminate all laws protecting people from criminals because there will always be criminals - Crimes are gonna happen, so why bother to pass laws? If we just eliminate all those nasty laws, we could save the taxpayer all those nasty costs of police, prosecutors & jails - after all it's "the responsibilty of the individual" to prevent him/herself from becoming a victum of a criminal. Is that how your world works? I seem to remember the name for that is Anarchy. JMHO
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
On the streets some folks will make a call to the police to help others and some won't.
On Ebay there is no one to tell that cares.
I feel this forum has helped a lot of folks
<< <i>why is it your job to try and make the world a safer place? >>
I'm a Republican!!
Actually, I am a registered D
Thank gawd (that I don't believe in) that I have always had a little bit of anarchist in me.
How is what you have done any different from , say, this
And how would the newbie collector that you so gallantly are trying to defend be able to tell the difference?
Which totally ignores the fact the seller flat-out lied about the condition of the coin and posted a bogus photo to pawn his wares.
How is what you have done any different from , say, this
What is different is I told the truth and have both the seller's false auction image and false description and the actual coin in hand -- in other words, hard facts that simply cannot be disputed. I'd be happy to send you the coin in a 2x2 if you want to judge for yourself.
The ACG posts were lies. Mine is not. Accordingly, they are not comparable.
And how would the newbie collector that you so gallantly are trying to defend be able to tell the difference?
So if someone is defrauded and doesn't know it, we should remain silent about the fraud? When the ignorant are defrauded, we should not expose it and condemn it? Simply put, I don't get it.
Fortunately, things don't work that way in the U.S.A.
Is the seller to be trusted? Of course not.
Let me help you to "get it"
There is another thread going on this forum right now about a fake gold coin. I am completely okay with that thread and that type of thread. Do you see the difference? In one, someone asks about the authenticity of a coin, and knowledgeable members have kindly pointed out that this coin must be a fake and provided reasons.
In this thread, you bid on something on Ebay just to leave a negative feedback - there is a significant difference between these two scenarios. You have violated all the same Ebay policies that you say the seller violated. Using a second secret Ebay ID, bidding on something you really didn't want to post malicious feedback. It seems very underhanded to me. You talk about laws for protection and consumer advocacy, but then you choose to ignore them in the name of justice...don't think so? Read this
Sounds like vigilantism to me. which kind of sounds like anarchy....so who is the anarchist? Maybe we both are!
<< <i>Sounds like vigilantism to me >>
Charles Bronson is my hero.
You talk about laws for protection and consumer advocacy, but then you choose to ignore them in the name of justice...don't think so? Read this
I disagree strongly with your conclusion. I looked at your reference carefully, and, respectfully, none of it supports your position. In fact your reference confirms what I did was entirely proper.
According to the Ebay policy upon which you rely:
"Policy
Buyers who do not meet the terms outlined in an item listing are not permitted to participate in the listing.
Buyers are not permitted to purchase items or place bids with the primary intent of disrupting a listing."
I "met the terms" of the listing and I did not "disrupt the listing" -- to the contrary, I completed the sale. Nor do my actions even come close to Ebay's examples of "unwelcome buying." So what Ebay policy or consumer law did I violate?
In any event, Ebay's "policies" are a piss-poor yardstick for measuring "justice" or legality.
Sounds like vigilantism to me.
Try "whistleblower." Or do you rail against those who expose corporate and government fraud?
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