Demise of Pre-Euro coinage (Alarming)

Apache

Hi everyone,

I am back from Iraq and ready to get back into the World Coin mode! I hope I don't return to that country anytime soon, a year was long enough.

Something I have been reading about since I've been back in the USA is the destruction/disappearance of coinage from the countries that have switched over to the EURO.

**One** Many of the coins turned into the banks in their respective countries are being destroyed by a "WAFFLING MACHINE", to be rendered obsolete. (how much has been done so far I do not have a clue).

**TWO** China is buying the heck out of these pre-euro coins for their use in satiating their booming economy and are hard pressed for metals of all kinds. They are melting down these pre-EURO coins for their metal alloys for their bursting industry.

I can see possibilities which could really make very scarce many of the lower mintage coins from countries that have switched over to the EURO and those countries coinage who are on the eve of joining that union pending approval from the European Union. Everything from nickel and aluminum to brass and copper are being sucked up by China.

Time will tell I suppose and I would think this is a genuine, valid, alarming and interesting situation for those who are world coin collector/hobbyists!

What are your thoughts on this?

take care,

Apache

historygeek

There was a thread about this awhile ago, can someone do a search? I would, but I forget the details of the title.

wybrit

Welcome back! Glad to see you have safely returned and thank you for your service.

Great question. I would not be surprised if the market values for such coinage would begin to rise. I am seeing this with British predecimal moderns now. I think it will not just be a function of decreasing availability but also whether or not the coin is attractive. German and French coinage may see price increases. What do others think?

1jester

Welcome home, Brother!

I agree with you about the upcoming increase in value of those coins made obsolete by the Euro. Personally, I haven't even tried to collect them. Cladking had a great thread about it last week.

newsman

Welcome back! I hope it doesn't take too long to get all the sand out. I spent some time in Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain Division -- it's a great outfit.

This was mentioned in a previous thread, but there are literally tons of pre-euro coins still out there -- the German Bundesbank, which was responsible for collecting them, is selling them to collectors in 10-kg bags. You can still buy them on eBay.

I don't expect these kinds of coins to become scarce unless there is widespread melting on a scale greater than that which already is going on. But I have noticed what seems to be an increase in collector demand due to the euro making the national issues obsolete, especially in proof and mint sets.

cladking

When base metal coins are recalled there is generally not a very strong response by the public.
These coins are usually low value and many people have the mistaken impression that the coins
are instantly collectible because they are obsolete. Higher value coins will actually flow into the
central banks in substantial percentages, but not the low face value coins. The interesting fact
about the recalls though is that the redeemed coins tend to be fairly accurate representatation
of the coins which are actually circulating. In other words people aren't pulling out the higher grades
and better dates to any significant degree. They are either turning in what they have or they aren't.
This makes high grade coins much tougher when large percentages end up as a new Chinese refrig-
erator. This can be particularly important when very small numbers were ever saved in the first
place as unc specimens as is the case with some of the recently obsolete European coinage.

Shipcoin

Welcome back, Apache and thanks for your great work, you did there!

Aethelred

Apache, Thank you for your service to America. Because of you and many others like you the world is a more free and more safe place.

ColinCMR

Welcome back!!

I can't wait to see what research people will do into this subject in the future.

spoon

Hey, welcome back!!


On this matter of disappearing pre-euro coins.. I don't think it'll be anything to worry about. There was a lot of junk floating around. The major countries have huge collector bases who've already hoarded all the MS+ material and the minor ones like Portugal already melted a lot of their stuff long ago. So what the Chinese got is most likely just a bunch of really lousy looking coins that wouldn't have been worth much numismatically until our cities are excavated by aliens millenia from now Add in to that the tons that were sold in bank bags, there's plenty to fuel the market for years to come. Any keys were already keys.. I doubt if any would be created due to melting. Any price rises in the future will be increased demand on a constant supply.. not decreasing supply on a constant/increasing demand. Just my opinion...

cladking

<< <i>Hey, welcome back!!


On this matter of disappearing pre-euro coins.. I don't think it'll be anything to worry about. There was a lot of junk floating around. The major countries have huge collector bases who've already hoarded all the MS+ material and the minor ones like Portugal already melted a lot of their stuff long ago. So what the Chinese got is most likely just a bunch of really lousy looking coins that wouldn't have been worth much numismatically until our cities are excavated by aliens millenia from now Add in to that the tons that were sold in bank bags, there's plenty to fuel the market for years to come. Any keys were already keys.. I doubt if any would be created due to melting. Any price rises in the future will be increased demand on a constant supply.. not decreasing supply on a constant/increasing demand. Just my opinion... >>



Very few moderns have been set aside in hoardes for the last 50+ years. There are
certainly many dozens of exceptions, but most dates and issues have been virtually
ignored and still there are ample supplies for the current demand.

The recent melts have largely gone to simply make the coins just as difficult to obtain
in grades like XF or AU.

spoon

<< <i>Very few moderns have been set aside in hoardes for the last 50+ years. There are certainly many dozens of exceptions, but most dates and issues have been virtually ignored and still there are ample supplies for the current demand. >>

Yeah, I should say that I am speaking from mostly the perspective of the German market. On that front there's more than enough modern material packed away, though it is tough to find certain dates. But if you go to a bigger show around here you can talk with the dealers and if the coins you're looking for aren't there (unlikely) someone will be able to find you one within a few weeks. (This is all just side-observations and gossip from the folks that actually collect the stuff. Personally the modern German stuff bores me )

Askari

Welcome back Apache!!!!

There's always some melting of turned-in coins whenever old types become obsolete. It's cheaper to melt and process it than to mine, smelt and process it. China is indeed consuming a lot of metals and they are long used to reprocessing scrap metal -- even when it comes as an aircraft carrier.

I agree with Spoon on the modern German coinage. The Germans lost nothing design-wise going to the euro. However, this will tend to make certain "common dates" scarce in high grade -- usually middle dates, not the early or late dates, which will have been extensively set aside. On the other hand, the lowest-denomination Finnish pre-euro coins, which weren't popular or much circulated, will always be something of a challenge.