Sorry guys, but those 1/1 Diamond Kings are a scam

KallMaloneSay · February 17, 2004 3:03AM

Wow, the product has been out for a week and there are already about ten 1/1's of Clemens out, are there another 15 of them? Shouldn't they be labelled 1/25's? I have a Clemente Sp Legendary Etched in Time that is numbered 192/400 made, it is a 1/1 because it is the only one serial numbered #192/400 (if we're going by Donruss/Playoff's logic).

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #1

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #2

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #3

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #4

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #5

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #6

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #7

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #8

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #9

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #10

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #11

Clemens 1/1 Diamond Kings #12

I'm sorry, but if you get a 1/1 out of Upper Deck or Topps products it's somewhat legitmate (except for maybe the Topps Gold Label 1/1's). This is just going to ruin it for the true 1/1's.

Basilone · February 17, 2004 3:26AM

Thats why I sold mine offline 2 hours after listing it.

John

calleocho · February 17, 2004 3:37AM

i usually dont go for modern cards ..except for a few certified autographs

this new product is ridiculous...the same player has autos that are #ed to 50, 25, 10, 5, 1 and then to top it off ..they have combo cards with autos and jersey or bat ..its just too much.

i love donruss signatures from 97 and 98 ...with the red, green and blue variations which make it fun and somewhat of a challenge.

and the new autographed cards have that lame sticker instead of the signature on the card itself.

brianwintersfan · February 17, 2004 3:45AM

Hey KallMalone,
It's not like those are all the same card.
It looks like different insert sets/parallel's that are 1/1's
What's wrong with that??

joestalin · February 17, 2004 3:59AM

Its called bang for the buck, collectors aren't sure what that looks like. I think playoff is tying to
give us our moneys worth! While other companies are just churning out the same cards numbered to
1999 that all look the same. The real crime is UD selling 120 dollar boxes that don't even give you
and autograph in them and barely two GU! Heck to get a patch from UD you have to buy an 80
dollar a pack product!

Lets see...I could buy a 120.00 box of sweetspot and get two GU or I could spend 70 on a box
of diamond kings and get two GU AND have a 1:16 shot at a unique 1/1 card. hmmmmm

Kudos to playoff, they will be getting my business! They are actually giving the collector real value
here and not some made card that costs a few cents to make that has no connection to the actual
player on the card.

Kevin

Basilone · February 17, 2004 4:08AM

<< <i>They are actually giving the collector real value >>

Yep I agree....I would take DK at $70 anyday over a $100+ UD box with fake patchs.

calleocho · February 17, 2004 4:35AM

how can it be good for the collector?

almost anyone who buys these 1/1 and such will most likely lose money for sure down the road

and for the set collector it becomes virtually impossible to complete a master set.

AlanAllen · February 17, 2004 4:52AM

A Mike Mussina collector on the Beckett boards said there were 88 different Mussina 1/1's. I can only hope they don't make this product for football, or if they do that they don't include Marcus Allen this year.

Joe

34GoudeyCollector · February 17, 2004 4:59AM

Geez, this is just a bit confusing. I love my 34's more and more after hearing this news!

Ken

qualitycards · February 17, 2004 8:12AM

All they are doing is giving the collector what they want, low #'d cards & 1/1's. Just cause a UD 1/1 card from another year is worth big bucks doesn't mean the same $ will equate for this issue, so with that said buy/bid accordingly. If you can pick up a 1/1 of your favorite player for low $, go for it. This hobby is supposed to be about collecting, not everything that a collector buys should be a shrewd investment...."Buy what you like, and what you can afford" my motto for almost 20 years. There are people who enjoy fine wine and spend a fortune for their hobby, and after a full night sampling & drinking the fine wine, they still wake up in the morning thristy. If a collector wants Jim Thome or Carlos Beltran cards, more power to you! Buy it, collect it & enjoy it! Seems lately that the sole enjoyment of this hobby is determined on how much you can make on a card or a box...jay

joestalin · February 17, 2004 8:13AM

collectors are busting this stuff and pulling cards that you can actually sell for a buck..actually
if I might use an example of someone on here, selling a card for almost a thousand bucks! You
can't even get a grand for Lebrons best autograph cards! There are obviously people out
here who want these are they are sure sells on ebay. Do you think these collectors give a crap
what these cards are worth in a few years? All cards go down, even Ripken even McGwire...all the
1/1's actually gives more collectors a chance to own a true 1/1. Usually a product has one of each
iplayer and you have to take out a second mortgage to buy it. I wish I had a 1/1 Schmidt in
my collection...but hey if there are a bunch of them out there then maybe I can finally land
one! You under estimate the player collector.

For those who don't know the configuration of this product there are several mini sets within
this set, some of those sets have auto versions, auto bat versions, and just GU versions along
with 4 or 5 border versions. This is much like gold label of the late 90's, except the cards are
more easy to distinguish.

There will be some player collectors that will be bent out of shape, but Im sure there are more
than 1 Mussina collector out there, and some of them may not have deep pockets. This product
gives both buyer and seller a chance to win.

Kevin

kuhlmann · February 17, 2004 8:22AM

Jay
Buying these boxes and packs is becoming like paying 2-5$ for a scratch off lottery ticket. I see people bust threw packs take the rookies and auto's then pass on the rest to a kid. This happens a lot. I got addicted to this bc i was a big time sports gambler and latly in football you cant pick the winner at all anymore. well at least i cant. So anyway i enjoy buying a box busting it listing it on ebay and see what profit i can net off it.
Last year i bought a box of playoff prestige baseball for 55$ busted it got 8 jersey cards and 2 auto cards. i made 670$ profit off that box since then i got a little hooked on this.
best box i ever opened got a roger clemens patch auto #d to 5!! an andrian beltre auto #d to 15. a troy glaus 5 color patxh card #d to 25 i think and 7 other jersey cards. arod chipper and i forget the rest. awesome box though.
same boxes will be releasing the week of march 10th again. i might bust a case they have the hot boxes in them 2 per case with 6 gameused or auto's per box.
damn didnt mean to ramble!!

AlanAllen · February 17, 2004 8:23AM

That's exactly the point, there is more than one Mussina collector out there. Card collectors inherently strive for completion, player collectors perhaps most of all. I'll use Marcus Allen cards for an example since I know his the best. Even since 1997, when Marcus' brother bought one of the Flair Masterpieces, every Allen collector out there has known that he can never have a complete collection. Two of the top three Allen collectors dropped out shortly thereafter. These days, there are a half dozen of so hardcore Allen collectors who still try to get mostly everything, but I am the only one who really pursues 1/1's. Most of the others don't even include those on their checklists. Every single one of them that I've spoken to is bitter about 1/1's, and I don't blame them. Does anyone honestly think 1/1's are a positive force for the hobby long-term? I don't blame everything on the card companies, but this I do blame them for this: First they killed set collectors, them team collectors, and finally player collectors. Who is left?

Joe

joestalin · February 17, 2004 11:34AM

good point joe and once again you can't please everyone, but Im sure that the hardcore Allen collctors
are few and far between in comparison to the other Allen collectors and Cheif collectors and HOF collectors.
If you believing that you can get every card then you are in the wrong hobby, there are just too many
products out there now. You have to adapt or become executivis obsoletus! LOL

I still think this benifits the people that playoff are targeting (box/pack buyers).
They can't think about the people who sit back and try to pick stuff off
ebay, they are looking to sell a product, and I think they did a great job.....I haven't hear anyone
who actually opened the product complaining about pulling 1/1's.

JS

kuhlmann · February 17, 2004 11:50AM

Wish i pulled a 1/1 of coco crisp!!! i never pulled a 1/1 card! best i ever got was 1/5 clemens. 1/5 vlad g. 1/5 byron leftwich.

Mikefromchester · February 19, 2004 7:38AM

You can call it a scam, but I really like mine. Thanks, Mike

joker73 · February 26, 2004 1:20AM

Here's someone's humorous twist on the DK 1/1s ... that about sums it up

.

Robert

joestalin · February 26, 2004 2:20AM

this guy is an idiot! Why talk about aftermarket 1/1's when diamond kings isn't? What, he is mad
now becuase he can't have all the 1/1's of a certain player now? What a jerk. How sad is it
when the average joe collector actually has a shot at a unique card, instead of the stupidly rich
grabbing up all those cards?

I might respect this guy if his auction actually made sense..I would agree aftermarket numbered cards
are stupid but why pin this on a product that DIDN"T have any aftermarket 1/1's?

Thanks for showing us this auction and how ignorant many collectors are!

JS

carew4me · February 26, 2004 3:16AM

Well, this proves that "Modern" has officially "jumped the shark"

Daeyel · February 26, 2004 3:34AM

JoeStalin claims:

I still think this benifits the people that playoff are targeting (box/pack buyers).
They can't think about the people who sit back and try to pick stuff off
ebay, they are looking to sell a product, and I think they did a great job.....I haven't hear anyone
who actually opened the product complaining about pulling 1/1's.

Actually, Joe, like I said on the Beckett messageboards,:

Thanks to ebay, card companies make cards very few people would want, knowing that the secondary market will get it to them.

joker73 · February 26, 2004 4:44AM

Ignorant or not ... I just thought seeing Jeff "Motorcycle" Kent with Mickey Mouse ears was kinda funny ...

My whole take on all this is that whatever floats your boat is fine with me. Personally, if I want an autograph of player X, why pay a premium of 2-10x (or more) just because *any* serial number is on the card. A 1/1, 1/10, 1/100, 1/1000, and unnumbered versions of the same player's autograph have the same "basic value." If you're trying to complete a set (like my 2001 Donruss Classics Sigificant Signatures), then SPs matter insofar as they're harder to track down (and depending on how many other folks are working on the set, might cost you a little more).

But like others on the board, I fail to see why my unnumbered Montana Classics auto should be "worth" so much less than the 1/1 Leaf Limited Monikers Montana auto that has the same (and arguably less aesthetically appealing) signature on it. To each their own, but the fact of the matter is an auto is an auto is an auto. Some look nicer than others (pen vs. marker, etc), but the fact a card company stamps some number on the card is a marketing ploy, simple as that. Anyone who tells you otherwise is, well, usually selling something

.

Robert

edit: I'm really only talking about autograph cards (my modern collecting interest) ... I could care less about game-used, event-worn, etc. cards.

joker73 · February 26, 2004 4:54AM

<< <i>They are actually giving the collector real value here and not some made card that costs a few cents to make that has no connection to the actual player on the card. >>

I agree Joe that they are delivering more value to the collector, however I would argue that it's purely artificial value. If McDonalds started serial-numbered Big Mac boxes, would anyone care which one they got? Not as long as their box contained two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun. It would be a gimmick, plain and simple, and that's all the card companies are doing with each release. It's all artificial value, and we're buying it hook, line, and sinker ...

Robert

goodriddance189 · February 26, 2004 5:13AM

<< <i>two all-beef patties >>

i dont think anything McDonalds makes is "all-beef"

joestalin · February 26, 2004 5:33AM

hey can we all get something straight...there are a two types of collectors out there, ones
who play the high stakes lottery game to try to get the big pull and then there are player
collectors and set collectors....only one of the above rips loads of wax. If you look on a sales
brochure you never see a picture of "the complete" set or all 5 numbered Arods...you
see the big money cards, nobody rips 50 dollar/pack products in search of their favorite
player growing up....joe rudi or someone like that!

Diamond Kings was not meant to a be a set builders set, even though I am surprised how
many people are putting this together. Playoff decided to release a product that cost
around 75 dollars and put in it an impressive list of autos and one of one pieces! This is
something that no other company would do or would even want to do! We are staring a
great product in the mouth and asking why there is so much beef in it!

Shouldn't the 1/1 odds be more like 1 in every 10 cases like we are used to??

Shouldn't there be more autographs like Aubrey Huff and Vernon Wells...you know semi-stars
who don't cost the companies a lot of money to load packs up with?

Shouldn't there be 100 Dwight Gooden autographs for every 1 Mike Schmidt?

Shouldn't there be high numbered cards like those numbered to 1000 or even 2000?

Have we become so complacent with mediocrity that we become offended when a product
actually is better than we thought and we can actually sell the cards we pull out of it and
in many cases get our money back?

I wonder if the offended include:

1) People who didn't get this product early because they were uninformed.
2) People who now have to pay twice the beginning price in order to play with this product
3) People who have sworn allegence to UD who have been screwed royally over the past year

Back in 99 I would of the been the first person to strike out at playoff, their products were
deceiving and their customer service was crap, now they have turned that around and have
delivered what I have thought to be the best 3 products of 2003. If they continue
this, then I will only buy their products!

JS

Basilone · February 26, 2004 5:47AM

This product has been the best break in many years for the high stakes box buster.

joker73 · February 26, 2004 6:04AM

For the box buster group, I'm sure it's been a blast. The same was also true of the first T206 release, Prime Cuts when it first came out, '01 Legenday Cuts - heck, I made a killing on '98 SPx Finite football back in the day. The things those releases share in common (save the really rare Cuts) is that the chase cards you turned around for a nice profit then are worth fractions of that price now. The same will happen with most of these 1/1s as well. Do you really think Playoff's gonna say: "Well, DK was a total winner, thanks to those great 1/1s. Let's put that idea back on the shelf for a while to help preserve the value of those cards." Not a chance.

SP Authentic used to be a solid product, but the success of '98 and '99 turned the product into a diluted shell of itself in later years (only the Vick saved '01 from sucking, and even then, the odds of pulling a Vick are a joke). Same with SPX - after the killer '99 set, it went downhill real fast. If Playoff keeps 2005 DK in the $70-$75 range with similar odds on 1/1s (with a similar checklist), then great, my hat's off to them. But my bet is that they a) raise the release price, b) dilute the checklist a la Timelines, and c) make 1/1s tougher to pull. The same thing happened last year with Legendary Cuts (again, UD with the screw-job). Card companies are out to make as much money as possible, and while Playoff does the best job in terms of quality and in many cases value, I don't think the flood of 1/1s will be beneficial to collectors (as opposed to box busters) in the end ...

Just to be clear - I'm not "offended" by the product at all - at the Tri-Star show last weekend, DK was by far the most visible product (tons of people buying boxes, as well as putting the set together like Joe mentioned). To be fair, Playoff/Donruss is the only brand at this point I'll buy certain boxes of, because many of their products are reasonably priced and guarantee an auto per box. Also, I think their set design is really outstanding on certain issues like Classics and Gridiron Kings (Elite is usually very sharp as well). It would be really disheartening to see them "pull an Upper Deck" and start jacking up prices on their better products ...

Robert

Sorry guys, but those 1/1 Diamond Kings are a scam

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