NEW NGC TALER REGISTRY ON ITS WAY

GOLDSAINT · February 16, 2004 6:31AM

Here is my reply from Dena on the World Taler registry. It looks like it will be coming very soon, those of you that are going to list best get your slabs ready. I have no idea what the conditions will be to this registry altough I ask them to perhaps just start with a registery that included all Taler type coins. This would include half talers, three quarters, full Talers, and double Talers. In addition I have no idea how they might work the point system they might try to estimate some rarity number and multiple it by the grade. Please let me know if you have any suggestions and i will be glad to pass them on, or you can email NGC direct.

Dear Mr. *******

Thank you for your suggestion for a registry set for World Talers. I will certainly add it to our list of sets to be added. So far we have been able to fulfill every set request from our members and I have no reason to think we couldn't add this set as you have suggested.

There is just one issue that will keep us from adding the set immediately. Our Registry system is driven by coin numbers (unique identifying numbers for each coin type) and we are in the process of revamping the coin numbers for our World Coins. Once we have finished this project, we will be able to add some World coin categories to the Registry.

I will keep you posted and let you know when we are getting close to adding this set.

Thank you!"

Dena

historygeek · February 16, 2004 6:39AM

Oh no.

cacheman · February 16, 2004 7:16AM

thanks for the info but I have to say that my Talers will never see a slab.....they are happy where they sit...

1jester · February 16, 2004 7:21AM

Don't worry, Cache, there will be plenty of participation from the likes of Greentoe and Old Bag-o-Bones....

Saint, that's great news!!! Thanks for your assistance in helping make it happen. Maybe they could do a ducat registry too.

GOLDSAINT · February 16, 2004 7:36AM

Hey Cacheman, to each his own. Everyone has a different motive for what they collect and how they preserve their collections. This is a beautiful collection you have, and I am sure you will never sell it, or need to have it certified. On the other hand I am no longer a young man and some day my family will own my collection.I want them to know what they have. Not that a sharp dealer might take advantage of them.If my family sells my collection after I leave the planet, I would like them to sell it at auction, and I don't want some dealer telling them how low all of these coins grade, not that any dealer might do that. I am sure you are a wealthy person and your collection is a very small part of your estate, mine on the other hand might bring some serious money if sold correctly, so I am going to spend a little extra money to have them slabbed. Like you, I swore I would never have my coins slabbed, they were just fine in Dansco books, not even protected the way yours are. A couple of months ago I got to priceing my complete Morgan dollar set and just about fell out of my chair, so all these coins and many more will go to NGC in a few weeks to be slabbed. As far as the Registry its self goes that is a seperate game that many are not interested in, so again to each his own.

cacheman · February 16, 2004 7:48AM

laurentyvan · February 16, 2004 10:37AM

I don't think anyone objects to slabbing coins for proper grading and protection- but the registry game is just that, a game. I will assume that a registry set has to play by the MS-60 to MS-70 rules. If this is the case, micro-grading will infect the darkside and probably drive up prices in certain cases which benefits the investor but not the collector. (I understand this is not the case in all instances -no flaming please)

I can understand that slabbed coins of any stripe are more liquid than non-slabbed coins, but I heave a sigh for simpler days. It has been said before and will be said again, differences in coins visible under only 8x and 10x simply do not interest me as much as a nice circulated coin with excellent eye appeal and hang the micro-grade. VF, XF, AU, UNC usually do just fine. Not all the time, eveyone has their uses for this system. Some people know how to manipulate it well...

cacheman · February 16, 2004 12:45PM

Aethelred · February 16, 2004 12:47PM

What about British stuff?

GOLDSAINT · February 16, 2004 6:14PM

At the bottom is a new note from Dena. It appears that this process will take a little longer than they originally thought due to the numbering system. Laurentyvan, I dont think you have to worry about being overrun with MS material in this type of registry, except in the more modern material. What I personally see comeing out of this kind of attention is just more knowledge. Lets face it, it takes someone with some money and time to help figure out the details on many of these older Taler coins. I suppose the current World publishers are doing the best they can ,but from what I can tell they are just reprinting the same old material year after years to sell books, they are not doing any real reasearch. Who out there has really made any attempt at publishing a truly modern price and rareity list? Yes this kind of activity will make prices higher in some areas as true rarities begin to get listed in pop reports. On the other hand the supply from old collections might begin to increase as more people see information and values increase. Lets face the fact that the reason that there is not more interest in World material is that there is not enough information for the average collector to make an informed decision. Why should a Fraklin proof with 51,000 minted sell for $500 and a rare Taler two hundred years old with perhaps 500 hammered out sell for $250. Why is it that a 1797 half with perhaps 2,000 minted sell for $20,000 in fine, and its European counterpart with a quarter of that mintage sell for $200. Yes of course, through the years the prices will increase as more people around the world are drawn to this hobby, but like it or not one of the main reasons we are all in the hobby is the value of our collections. All of us to are collecting the treasures of the centuries. If these were not valueable rare items, we might give up coins for beanie babies. In fact there may be more available research on beanie babies and hummel figureines than there is on most Talers from Europe.If a man like Al Overton can do a complete book on Bust halves and give hundreds of varites rarity ratings, then some one should be able to do the same with old Talers, there is just not enough interest to drive the information out.

"I spoke with David Lange, our numismatist that sets up our Registry sets, and he believes that it could be several months before we start adding some of the requested World Coin Registry sets.

This is due in part to the coin numbering project but also, regarding Talers specifically, as you said we may have to implement a more simplified scoring mechanism for these types of coins because they are a pretty complex series, affecting hundreds of small kingdoms, and they would be nearly impossible to score across a range of grades in our current system. So, the modification of our system to score different series in a different way will take some time as well.

I am sorry if my original email conveyed a more optimistic time frame than this. I wasn't fully aware of the scope of the project to revamp the coin numbers for World Coins and the number of pending set requests we have yet to fill. We are striving to fill all set requests but it looks as though some sets will take longer than others."

1jester · February 16, 2004 7:50PM

"If these were not valueable rare items, we might give up coins for beanie babies." --Saint

Truer words were never spoken. Also, I find myself agreeing with you on one of the major reasons for absurdly low prices for older rare coins such as Talers--the lack of awareness and knowledge of them among the general collecting community.

Down with Frankies and Kennedys!!!! Long Live Darkside rarities!!!

PS: I hope Lucy and Russ don't get wind of my sentiments....

GOLDSAINT · February 17, 2004 6:35AM

Thanks for all your responses. Here is an interesting question. Has anyone ever had any of these older Hammered coins slabbed? As I start looking at things to send in I noticed , as I am sure most of your have, that many of these coins are not straight. Some are a little concave. Is this something we need to ask NGC or PCGS about?

1jester · February 17, 2004 7:10AM

I haven't had any of mine slabbed, but surely others here have. Many coins were bent at the mint, from a process using roller dies, in which a big roller is used to impress the designs on a sheet of coins, after which each coin is individually cut out. This is usually done only with smaller, ie thinner issues. I don't think there are any full Taler sized coins like this. I'd hope the slabbers would know how to attribute these coins properly.

By the way, I wish NGC would use a clear slab, so as to make it possible to see the edge of the coin. Many coins have writing on the edges.

GOLDSAINT · February 17, 2004 9:00AM

Thanks Jester, I think I might send their world guy a note and ask him. I will let everyone know what he says.

ajaan · February 17, 2004 9:04AM

<< <i> Has anyone ever had any of these older Hammered coins slabbed? >>

I have about a dozen smaller hammered coins slabbed.

cacheman · February 17, 2004 9:14AM

I've had a couple early milled British crowns slabbed by NGC. Unfortunately they were slightly out-of-round and the coin was jammed into the interior insert in such a way that the plane of the coin isn't parallel with the slab...one rim edge is at the front of the slab and the opposite rim edge is at the back. This happened with all of them and I would have thought better for the price paid. I can only imagine the results with really out-of-round pieces.

coinkat · February 17, 2004 11:46AM

PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG all grade hammered coins. Be selective in terms of what you submit. Take a good look at the phlan and make sure it is not cracked or split. Problematic coins will mostlikely not be slabbed.

ajaan · February 17, 2004 11:48AM

ANACS told me they won't slab hammered coins. I've seen some in ANACS holders, but they won't do it anymore according to my last contact with them.

coinkat · February 17, 2004 11:56AM

That is news... I thought that they still did hammered coinage back to Henry VIII or so. I don't think they did stuff dating back to Edward the Confessor and coins dating back before 1066

ajaan · February 17, 2004 11:58AM

As far as I know only ICG will do coins before 1066. ANACS told me they don't do hammered because they are too thin.

JamminJ · February 17, 2004 1:39PM

<< <i> As I start looking at things to send in I noticed , as I am sure most of your have, that many of these coins are not straight. Some are a little concave. Is this something we need to ask NGC or PCGS about? >>

I have several minor coins with distinct curves slabbed by NGC. As long as the bend is not so severe that it won't fit in the slab they seem to have no trouble at all.

<< <i>I'd hope the slabbers would know how to attribute these coins properly. >>

As far as my Austrian stuff in NGC holders goes they always list the year, denomination and mint which narrows the attribution down considerably. If there are two distinct types which are quite similar they put the KM number on the insert to help.

-JamminJ

JamminJ · February 17, 2004 1:41PM

<< <i> I can only imagine the results with really out-of-round pieces. >>

They do this:

-JamminJ

trozau · February 17, 2004 1:52PM

Nice Klippe!

JamminJ · February 17, 2004 1:59PM

Thanks!

One of the main reasons I sent that guy to NGC was how silly he looked sitting in an airtite. Imagine my surprize to learn thay do not have holders with square holes!

-JamminJ

1jester · February 17, 2004 9:03PM

That klippe looks cool sitting in that sl*b!

NEW NGC TALER REGISTRY ON ITS WAY

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