MS67 AND MS68 MORGANS

MoneyLA

A question for you Morgan collectors: Im very intrigued by these high grade Morgan Dollars and my question is a "technical one"... how did these coins survive in such high grades? For example, the large number of 1881s ms67 coins?? I dont think the mint had "mint sets" back then with special handling? The way I understand it, coins were struck, dropped into bags and moved about. Then a hundred years later these coins have few if any marks? Please explain how these survived? cheers, alan mendelson

jbsteven

I would guess either they were at the top of the bags and not many were on top of them or they were pulled out before they dropped into the bags.

Shamika

The bags were barely moved during the decades they sat in storage.

Just a guess.

dragon

That's a good question.......Yes, these coins were put into canvas bags of 1000 which weighed approximately 51 lbs., and many were moved around quite a bit before being opened and sorted out. What you have to realize however is the huge number of intact bags that once existed and just how many millions of coins there actually were. Using only 1881-S as an example, there were literally thousands of these bags with 1000 coins in each bag, and many spent much of their life untouched in the dark vaults of banks. Just using the theory of large numbers, it makes sense that a very small percentage of these coins would somehow escape getting all banged up and remain in near pristine condition. When you consider the total number of uncirculated 1880-S and 1881-S Morgans in existence, it's still just a tiny overall percentage that remain in MS67 or better condition, probably less than 1/100th of 1% overall.

K6AZ

I was involved in two original bags that were broken up last year, one bag of 83-Os and one bag of 84-Os. Out of 2000 coins, 1900 graded 63. There were 73 that graded 60-61-62, 25 64s, and two lone 65s. Nothing over 65. The reason you see so many high grade San Francisco Morgans is that they had much higher striking pressure compared to the other mints, and also had a much better way of handling the coins once they were struck. Believe it or not, the New Orleans mint used coal shovels to scoop the coins out of the bins.

jbsteven

my assumption is when a bag is moved more bagmarks happen. I would be suprised to see any bags come out that would have 67's and 68's in them.

gemtone65

About 20 years ago I had an experience very much like k6az. I was given first opportunity to search an original bag of 1884-o dollars. After 4 hours of looking, I found a grand total of one gem toned coin. It now sits in an NGC65 holder.

dragon

Finding various grade coins in original bags depends on a few factors, some dates came better than others, others were jostled around more than others, etc. You could for example go through a bag of -P- or -O- mints and not find a single MS65 or better coin, you could also go through an -S- mint bag and find dozens of MS65's 66's, etc., it all depends on various factors.

Windycity

I had the wonderful opportunity of buying two un-open bags about four years ago... 1881-S and 1888 0 - I sent many from each to PCGS - one MS 67 1881-s, about 30 MS66, and many 65's. As for the 1888 O - one MS 65, one MS64 PL, many 64s. Tough date to find the high grades.

DennisH

Going through original bags of Morgans... now THAT would be something to experience!!!

MoneyLA

thank you for your responses. So, I guess the bottom line is these are miracle coins because indeed the mint did not do any "special handling" with these ms67 and ms68 morgans? cheers, alan mendelson

BAJJERFAN

Well you always hear how the CC Morgans were toted from the mint in Carson City to wherever they were stored in old wagons over hard roads and bounced around a lot and that is why so many of them are heavily bagmarked and maybe why the TPG's cut em a little more slack when grading them.

<<"Believe it or not, the New Orleans mint used coal shovels to scoop the coins out of the bins.">>

Had they known that 120 years hence that there would be discriminating collectors like us do you suppose that they would have been a bit more careful.