Just how brutal are grading services on Bagmarked key date morgans?

ladyship

I have been seeing a number of common date Morgans with terrible bagmarks graded 64+s.
Question is, are the services tougher on key dates,the same or,do they use looser standards on the rarer coins?

Baley

I don't know if it's so much that rare coins get a break, as that they keep getting resubmitted until they're Maxed Out.

But grading Morgans is not just about bagmarks, sometimes a coin with a bagmark or three in a Focal Area can still make 64 if the strike, luster, or surfaces (ie toning or PL) are 65 or above.

Rampage

My last submission with a Morgan, which was about 2.5 months ago, had an 1878-CC. The coin was blast white, but had bag marks all over it. I mean horrible. I only wanted it graded because it was a CC and it needed to fit in my collection of other slabs. So, I was expecting an MS60/61 grade. Nothing big. The coin came back as an MS62. I know, not much of a difference in price, but I thought it was only a 60/61. I would have been happy either way, but I am more happy with this grade.

DennisH

PCGS grades CC Morgans looser when it comes to bagmarks, but the other mintmarks are all graded pretty tough!

ladyship

Thanks for the comments, reason I was asking,I have this 1884s Morgan,never graded,been setting in a book for years.I am thinking of submitting it along with the rest of my set.
You guys want to take a look and give me some opinions?

DennisH

I have talked to dealers who have NEVER received a Mint State grade of any kind from PCGS on an 1884-S. But having said that, you need to give your coin a try... because all Mint State 1884-S currently in PCGS holders were raw at one time.

Besides, even a pretty AU 1884-S is a dandy coin!

It's impossible to accurately judge the condition of your coin from the scans, but it appers to have a lot going for it.

ladyship

Thanks Dennis, She is absolutely Mint state,just has the bag marks,and a few mint luster rubs.
I am not familar enough with 84s to know how stong the strike was on the hair and the eagles breast so,I value opinions

DennisH

The strike on the 84-S wasn't great, but it wasn't awful either.

Your shot of the eagle is better than of Liberty. From it I'd said the strike is average+ for the date.

One more note: I know one older collector who submitted an 84-S to PCGS that he inherited from his father. It graded MS65!!

jdimmick

Ladyship,
When I saw the first photo, I was thinking lightly cleaned, but after seeing the close up shot and the actual color, Id say definitely not.

Hard to judge from photo's as dennis said, but I believe your coin is MS. Would like to have seen photo's of the other parts of the coin in actual color, not tilted.


jim

ladyship

Thanks again for the comments,I tried to take a couple more photo's but this is my first day of using a digital camera for coins so they are not the best.

prooflike

Regarding strike, I think the San Francisco mint during the early and mid 1880's produced some of the best struck Morgans.

I think it'll grade AU for rub. Wish there was a better image of the obverse to see the luster on the hair above the ear and the top of the cap.

jdimmick

I am still thinking Mint state!


ladyship,

please post when you get it back

MrEureka

For any given MS grade, compared to other silver type coins, Morgan and Peace dollars tend to have more bagmarks and less collector-caused problems like hairlines, flip rub, etc. Overall, I think that silver dollars - including key dates - are graded to the same standards as other type coins.

DennisH

Ladyship:

That's a much better shot of the obverse. I agree... the coin looks Mint State.

My experience has been that PCGS is far more strict about hairlines on key date Morgans than they are with marks. Unfortunately, scans are extremely effective at NOT showing hairlines.

As a result, your scans make the coin appear to me to be an MS63 -- but even a few wispy hairlines could knock it down to 62 or 61 or 60 or...

If you do send the coin in for grading, please let us know how it all turns out!

ladyship

Thanks ,everyone for your comments and input..
If I send my Morgans in ,I will post the grades .

Rampage

To me, it looks whizzed. However, it could just be the pictures.

sinin1

the first couple of obverse shots look lacquered or polished to me

the last one looks nice

if there are luster breaks (rub) it shouldn't go over AU58, no matter how nice it looks

I am talking PCGS there, who knows what you could get from some of the other services