Is It Worth Buying Raw From Dealers/Collectors Who Sell Graded Cards

JusttheFacts

There are many dealers/collectors who sell graded cards almost exclusively. There are also some dealers/collectors that sell raw cards almost exclusively. Then there are dealers/collectors who sell both. I'm looking for opinions on whether it is worth buying raw cards from dealers/collectors who sell a fair amount or more of graded cards. I'm focusing on situations where the lot is being purchased on the Internet so I will have no chance to actually look at the lot closely before purchasing. My assumption in that situation is that the dealer/collector bought the raw lot, went through it for cards that might be PSA 9 (or 8, etc. depending on the set), kept those cards for grading, and is now trying to move the remaining cards. Since the dealer/collector submits cards for grading, why wouldn't the dealer/collector simply submit the choice cards for grading and make the premium rather than selling them raw? There are many dealers/collectors that I have bought graded cards from and had great experiences, but I am still hesitant to buy anything raw from them for fear that there will be no PSA 9 worthy material.

I'm not looking for a motherload, but if I'm buying, for example, a 1000 card lot, and the lot is described as averaging NM/MT with some better and some worse, I just want my fair shot at some of the MT examples rather than fearing that all of those have been removed.

John

Stump

I dont think you will find many mint examples if you buy raw from dealers that sell both raw and graded. Its been my experience that they have been picked through. I am not saying this is always the case I just have had no luck on this end.

Dave

ctsoxfan

This is a great question, and I'm interested in hearing everyones thoughts on this as well. My feeling is pretty much as you stated, in that I'm hesitant to buy raw cards from dealers who sell large graded inventory. If there is another reason that they would be selling high quality raw cards (rather than grading them and collecting the profits), I would love to hear it. I notice that dsl and other large PSA dealers sell bulk raw lots on Ebay (most likely the rejects from their screening process), but even the small dealer who sells graded will have collectors wondering about their raw inventory - "Why didn't he submit this, if its so nice?"

nearmint

In my case, you guys are correct. If I think a card will grade an 8 or 9, I will usually submit it for grading, since I can get a premium for it after that. I do sell many ungraded NM cards on my site, though, and a lot of vintage collectors are happy with those.

I can imagine cases where a dealer would sell ungraded 8's or 9's, if he thought it wasn't worth his time to submit them for grading. For some dealers I'm sure it isn't worth the time to get $20-$30 cards graded.

Mike

qualitycards

Remember there are still many card collectors who do not like graded cards from any company, so with that said some dealers may choose to carry nice raw along w/ graded to satisfy both types of collectors. When I'm at shows looking for nice raw cards to submit, I do notice that some will have graded type prices on the raw cards, letting you know that this would come back an 8. If I'm gonna have some risk, the price better be more flexible.

I also notice the later the year, the better condition you can find raw, 1976 in NM/Mint - Mint can be found in abundance, much more so then 1966, which in turn are easier to find then 1956...jay

KING KELLOGG

Here's another thought......

A few collectors buy "lower than expected" PSA (or other) graded cards and then break them out for a nice raw set. There is a dealer here in Portland that does just that. He looks for PSA 6 and 7's for great eye appeal, and delivers them, in the holder, to his customers. If the customer likes the card, it's sold. If he doesn't. it's re-sold as a graded card. Not much risk there...

Anyway, I thought it was an unusual application to a service.





Larry

highend

in my experience i've had very little luck buying raw from DSL, SKERBE etc. while the cards meet a nm - nm-mt criteria they would grade out with qualifiers. buying raw from collectors has yielded better results for me especially in the 70's issues. often times someone may be less than willing to grade for a psa 8 common from that era and not have the grading cost recouped.

overall buying raw on ebay is a gamble. i prefer searching the shows for mint cards , even though for some reason they look better at the show than when i get home.

mcastaldi

I think it also depends on what you're buying. There are many years, especially in the 1970s issues (and later), where it's just not worth it for the dealer to send them in for grading.

I mean look at say 1978s and 1979s for example. PSA9 NQ commons have been going for about $10. At those prices, it's just not worth the dealer's time and money to send them in. I would be more than happy to buy raw cards from these years from a dealer I trust.

Ultimately, you're always safer in buying from a dealer you trust whether you're buying graded or ungraded stuff.

Mike

interchanges

I still haven't learned my lesson. Bought a T205 common from irishosta on ebay (BMW?) they didn't give it a grade, but had a very nice scan. Looked to be solid EX.

Sure enough, I get it and a pinhole was slightly covered up.
With vintage material, anything over $50.00 should be graded.
Otherwise you run into problems...almost every time.

What really matters is if you buy ungraded material with the intention of getting it graded. If they're graded card sellers, there's probably a reason. (unless the card's value prohibits it)
(already been said)

johng

Before I buy a high-grade raw card, I always check to see the sellers other auctions. If he has 99% raw cards for sale, then I make the judgment call from the seller's feedback, the scan and the description. I would be very cautious if the seller deals with mostly graded cards, and this is a rare exception. In that case I would have to assume that this is a card that was rejected by PSA for some reason. Why else would it not be graded if all of their other auctions are graded.

crsportscards33

All good responses. A better question is this: Are you buying strictly over the internet? What I do
is keep a nice assortment of raw cards for shows( where people can actually see them), and sell
mostly graded cards online. Bigger profit there. Just my opinions. Hope it helps.

Chris

toppsgun

"even though for some reason they look better at the show than when i get home."

Hey, you've been using my eyes to buy cards at shows. Whattsup with that?

toppsgun

"Bought a T205 common from irishosta on ebay (BMW?) they didn't give it a grade, but had a very nice scan. Looked to be solid EX.

Sure enough, I get it and a pinhole was slightly covered up."

Basilone

<< <i>In my case, you guys are correct. If I think a card will grade an 8 or 9, I will usually submit it for grading, since I can get a premium for it after that. I do sell many ungraded NM cards on my site, though, and a lot of vintage collectors are happy with those. >>



Nearmint- I appreciate your honesty...

dbj77

A wise man (aconte) once told me that you should take a second look at any dealer who deals primarily in graded cards but is selling raw stuff. Doesn't mean the stuff is trimmed but it may not be worth your while if you are looking to get it graded yourself. There is usually a reason the dealer hasn't slabbed it themselves, especially when the card could bring in some great cash in a slab.

purelyPSA

My answer: NO WAY.

Early on in my collection of graded material, I'd buy cards here and there from dealers with large PSA holdigs for sale - nothing expensive, just $4 or $5 cards, advertised as NM/MT - that would be worth, say, 20 bucks in a holder if it were to 8, thinking hey, it's probably not worth their time to submit it(as Jay mentioned), but it's worth my time. I figured hell, these sellers have so many PSA cards they must know a NM/MT card when they see one.

Well, I didn't find one single card that would qualify in the dozen or so auctions I won! Not one card that would grade an 8 that was advertised as NM/MT by large scale PSA sellers. Everything had slight wear on three corners, had a notch that you couldn't see very well on the scan, little things that would make an 8 a 6 or a 7. I felt these guys knew damn well what they were doing, and were taking advantage of eBay's well known "if it's advertised as NM/MT raw, it's probably Ex/Mt or NM" attitude buyers have, thinking since their cards are every bit as nice as the other raw cards that are advertised as NM/MT, why not?

Ironically, I've had better luck finding NM/MT cards from raw sellers and collectors than I have from people who should know better. Figure that out. I'd be inclined to trust a dealer that I've seen posting on here, but other than that, thumbs down.

Steve

thefootballcardstore

I would think that at the very least you would get a much lower percentage of gradable cards from buying raw lot from graded card dealers. I leave behind a lot of mint (and even gem mint) cards in my lots and sets either because of population or value. Selling those types of cards also offset the NM cards when advertised in a NMMT auction.

I also know of a few fellows that will pass on every mint card of a place kicker or punter, etc. (or even an unpopular team).
So - I would assume that you would certainly get a lower amount of star or semistar cards in high grade, and more dead on commons. Jeremy

scottsusor

Excellent topic and question. It seems to me that common sense would dictate that a dealer who sells graded stuff would not, under MOST circumstances, ever sell a card raw that would get a premium if graded. There are two circumstances where he/she WOULD sell such cards. Those circumstances are: (1) lack of time and (2) lack of funds. Unless a dealer has a staff of "amateur" graders, he/she is going to do the up-front "amateur" grading himself/herself. When you're in the business of selling, sometimes you don't have adequate time available for this type of thing. At other times, your cash flow may be low and you may decide to go ahead and sell some raw stuff that you might have gotten a higher return on if you had sent it in for grading. Obviously we're not talking just a few cards here but many cards all at once.

But would they actually ever do this? I doubt it. I think most would rather let those raw cards sit in storage. Of course, there's a price to pay for THAT strategy too. While their cards sit, others get the same cards graded, and the value of their stored raw cards goes down. Its really a catch-22 but its all about business decision making, finances, and time management.

Scott

fab4

our friend zardoz once said: NEVER buy raw cards from a SLABBER.

...fab4............i miss that guy