A serious question for JoeStalin (Kevin)
KallMaloneSay
Posts: 390 ✭
Just curious Joe,
Everything you say about the hobby is negative. Your views on current brands released is negative. Your stance on the graded card industry is extremely negative. Your view on Barry Bonds' abilities is negative (which shows how ignorant you really are). Your view on pretty much everything but the Buccaneers and Soriano is negative.
So please do us all a favor and answer this question seriously: Why are you on these boards and in the hobby? I'm not even saying that to be a jerk, I'm really wondering at this point. Myself and many others on these baords clearly love the hobby. That's why I had to take out $50,000 in loans to start my own business, and it's been the best thing I've ever done as far as I'm concerned.
I know you've been very helpful at times to answer questions that people have had, but for every helpful response you give there are 15 BS ones where your responses aren't asked for and definately not needed. Just when I think you're close to growin up, you prove me wrong. You've driven some solid members like CoolHandLuke from these boards by having all your cronies from the Sports Talk Forum gang up on him and physically threaten both himself and his wife. So before releasing your thesis, at least give us a legitimate response as to why you are here at all.
Jason
Everything you say about the hobby is negative. Your views on current brands released is negative. Your stance on the graded card industry is extremely negative. Your view on Barry Bonds' abilities is negative (which shows how ignorant you really are). Your view on pretty much everything but the Buccaneers and Soriano is negative.
So please do us all a favor and answer this question seriously: Why are you on these boards and in the hobby? I'm not even saying that to be a jerk, I'm really wondering at this point. Myself and many others on these baords clearly love the hobby. That's why I had to take out $50,000 in loans to start my own business, and it's been the best thing I've ever done as far as I'm concerned.
I know you've been very helpful at times to answer questions that people have had, but for every helpful response you give there are 15 BS ones where your responses aren't asked for and definately not needed. Just when I think you're close to growin up, you prove me wrong. You've driven some solid members like CoolHandLuke from these boards by having all your cronies from the Sports Talk Forum gang up on him and physically threaten both himself and his wife. So before releasing your thesis, at least give us a legitimate response as to why you are here at all.
Jason
Baseball Card Heaven, the closest card shop to the Las Vegas Strip.
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
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Comments
Is your conscious getting to you after ripping those two boxes of sweet spot? You must realize by now
that if you are going to both own a card shop AND rip what product you get in, you are going to have
to be able to have a tougher skin because people will call you a lier and they will ask why you took
the good products. You yourself have said that I provide helpful info here so why now go against
that just because you feel bad that you took away a great box from a customer? Afterall there
are better boxes...right.....ahhh...right???? LOL
If you really read my posts you would understand, I never questioned Bonds numbers only the drugs
he uses...drugs that Ruth and Williams didn't use...Three years ago he was nothing but a spoiled
athlete...now he is considered the best hitter of all time?? Where were the numbers this year...the
same year that drug tests were in place?? 73 one year not even 40 the next?
As far as UD...I forgot that along with the license to sell cards they also send you a blindfold. You have
learned well to bite your tounge when you see garbage because that is all that UD has realeased this
year....Did you actually have a product that was hot in 2003?? Id be curious to hear which one(s)?
UD has survived on past hits for years now, when is this going to stop? Will you card dealers ever
grow the balls to tell UD about it or not order it?? Oh I forgot you must buy product A to get
Product B and then you will get product C if you buy a case of product D! How much UD Victory do
you have left in your shop? When was the last time you wished you had more of product B? I
guess when your money runs out you will realize that their products wern't that good. Whats wrong
with asking for better quality, better ideas and better value? The cards companies act like we
need them and not the other way around. If the middle man isn't saying anything who will? You
think UD visits this site to hear what their customers want?
As far as CoolHand, we were friends and your accusations are proof of your nievity. The people that
have ran from my posts are people who didn't want to face the facts. Are you one of them?
UD is a waste and has been pulling the wool over collectors eyes for quite sometime...I know your
job is to look the other way and sell product, but I won't do that.
Thanks
Kevin
<< <i>? You must realize by now that if you are going to both own a card shop AND rip what product you get in, you are going to have to be able to have a tougher skin because people will call you a lier and they will ask why you took the good products. >>
That is a good point. You are just eating your profits by opening the product. I would open a pack or two so I could so customers some see samples...but Joe is right...the educated customer is going to come in and ask if the case card or what cards have been pulled. At that point you are either going to have to lie to them or tell them the truth. Thats just the way it is nowadays with so much money on the line.
Back when I was buying alot of modern stuff....if I saw a number of strong cards from a set in the dealers showcase a day or two after the release...I will usually pass on buying packs. It tells me that the guy opens up alot...and in many cases...guys will open till they hit the case card (especially with Upper Deck). I would also check to see what they have on eBay before I go into the shop as many dealers will list their big "hits" on the night of the release.
John
SP Game Used Basketball
Sp Legendary Cuts (going way up)
Spx basketball
Ultimate Collection Football
Prospect premieres Baseball
SP Authentic Football
I'm sure SP Authentic, SP Signature, and Ultimate Collection basketball will all go way up too, and Ultimate baseball should as well in the next few months. So why are you claiming everything tanks? Fleer clearly makes the most bad products, nearly all of them go down. Donruss is alright, but quite a bit of it goes down rapidly too. Topps is not too far off from Upper Deck, they still hold alright for the most part and not too many lemons. Upper Deck is the best based on those numbers. Their exlusive Autograph/Memorabilia contracts with the likes of Ichiro, Hideki Matsui, LeBron, and other stars like McGwire, Koufax (I think), and others gives the great mid-range hits and then the Mantle, Ruth, and whoever's cuts are phenomenal.
So being that my life revolves around knowing about this stuff, I would hope that my point has been put across well. I tell every one of my customers to expect about 70% back on unopened wax return. Granted every once in a while you'll get a 500% return on a box, and then there are the boxes that return 40%, but 70% is a fair number for the average. As long as you enjoy ripping that box, then it's far better than spending $100 on a round of golf and having nothing to show for it but a broken five iron that you busted over your knee on the 16th after you shanked one into the water.
Just the way I see it, Viva La Hobby!
Jason
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
<< <i>70% back on unopened wax return >>
that is one problem with modern stuff...the slot machines down the street from you offer a better payoff percentage.
Nowadays..I stick with the Topps/Bowman Heritage products....the market values hold up well and it fosters lots of trading between collectors.
John
As for CoolHandLuke, I got a different story from him, but I'll stay away from that for now because I'm not going to speak for anyone else.
Times have changed with Upper Deck where I'm not required to order any single product of their's if I don't want to. Maybe the wholesalers do, but I haven't carried mass amounts of Victory, base Upper Deck, and Hardcourt. I got one or two boxes because customers want to buy a few packs of everything here and there, so I get some in for them and when sold out I just move along.
On a more positive note I do commend you for some of your more helpful responses, and you would know since I've send you PM's in the past. It's just that I see so many negative posts from you on grading and the hobby in general, which is not only my lifeline, but also my favorite pasttime. You at times are very helpful to these boards and at times extremely disruptive, which is why others have (unsuccessfully) tried to get you banned from the boards in the past and even have things like "proving JoeStalin wrong one step at a time" in their personal lines. If you haven't examined why others would go to such lengths then maybe you should do some personal reflection,
Jason
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
So Upper Deck prints up 22 different baseball products this year and you tell me that only one
of them is going up?? Legendary Cuts sells for under 120 on-line which is less than what it
sold for when it came out.
So that means that UD has put out 22 products and none of them are hot....maybe prospects is....of
course how much does it cost to get guys in double A and triple A to sign cards?
I don't understand why people aren't blasting Upper Deck..sure they are not alone, but this
is a crock! They sign all the big players to exclusive autograph deals and then give us junk! I would
rather see Lebron and Ichiro in topps or playoff products than wasting away as short prints in each 22
products that UD puts out!
Forget making money for a second, are you happy with their effort this past year? They say they
are restructruing redemptions this year....didn't they say that last year?
Maybe you need to look in the mirror as a dealer and take a stand? If not you can slink away, sell
crap, and spend your time finding my past posts!
I have numbers and emails if you would like to do the former, if you would like to do the latter, then you
are on your own.
JS
I have never dealt with JS, but he is an earnest collector and clearly has knowledge about the hobby; I can understand Jason's frustrations with what he sees as an attack on the hobby which is his lifeblood and his comments should be seen through that point of view.
No harm, no foul, no big deal.
I still feel that Upper Deck is doing a very good job on the whole. I guess I have to ask what you want out of a product Joe. Do you expect every $120 box to produce $120 worth of ebay priced cards? And then have a few boxes produce $1000 worht of key AUTO's or cuts? That will never happen, people know there is a gambling element in opening wax and the market would have the boxes go up to $160 if the least you could get out was $120 worth.
I have both types of customers; those who are happy to see cool cards and those who expect every box to have an AUTO that pays for 150% of the box price. I had a guy buy a box of 04 Upper Deck baseball and he was raving about the Catfish Hunter wood engraved card he got because he's a Yankees fan and it was one of the cooler looking cards he's seen. I have another guy that came in and spent $450 in wax on Ultimate Collection baseball, Yankee Signature (at $120 per box, not the $250 they came out at), and some other odds and ends. He did alright I thought, certainly not miserable with his Yaz AUTO, Torri Hunter buyback #/25, A-Rod/Nomar Dual patch and some other decent cards. But he was mad that he didn't get a McGwire AUTO or dual patch of Mantle and DiMaggio I guess. Opening wax is fun, perhaps more fun than ever with the knowledge you can get a $10,000 Ruth cut AUTO or whatever. But it is also more of a gamble with the rising prices of boxes. If you are strictly looking to open a box of cards and make a fortune, don't open any wax then.
Jason
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
Thanks for the info on Mike, I didn't realize that he was attacked on other boards. He was a very
intelligent poster and thats probably what got him in trouble over on the idiot board. Tell him he
is always welcome back on this board and that we will have his back.
UD rips usually wind up the same way...2-3 cards that I put in penny sleeves which may or may
not be worth more than 20 bucks....all the rest is garbage! UD puts out some of the nicest
cards around but no one ever pulls them! They offer nothing across the board, their base
sets lack imagination and thought. I think if you are going to sell a box for over 120, it should
have an autograph in it....Im the first to realize that for every Musial, or Berra pulled there
must be 100 scrubs....but at least you get a shot! Say UD makes 100,000 boxes of sweetspot
thats 50,000 boxes with no autos...thats a joke! Many of their higher end products with
pack prices around 50-75 bucks don't deliver an auto a pack...you don't see something wrong
with that? Topps has figured it out, playoff too, 0 for 22 is a problem.
Besides Fleer, UD has cut back the most in cost..they been substituting these "made" cards but
have been keeping pack prices the same. What is the goal here? They said a year ago that it
was to show collectors something unique and new....ok...these patch cards are now old...nothing
has changed...not even the prices.
I think only someone completly into the hobby would care this much about this as I do. It pains me to see
it go downhill like this. It was only 3 years ago companies were putting 3-4 autos in per box, now
you can't even get one! I hope that we can all attempt to improve this hobby, instead of pretending
that it is fine.
Thanks
Kevin
I’d love to hit the “case card” in any product- or simply a top $ auto- but that’s not my main goal in ripping wax. My main goal in opening boxes is to relive the joy I got out of it as a kid- to blow off some steam/pressure that the “real world”/daily grind produces far too much of. My best/most recent pull came from UD Sweet Shot- a Jordan GU jersey card w/a BV of $150. Pulling that 1 card made me ecstatic as MJ’s one of my favorite NBA players- someone I grew up watching and someone I think represents the “true meaning” of the game. It’s not a card I’d put up on EBay even though it fetches decent $. From other/most of my boxes UD and otherwise, I’ve been less lucky, ending up w/plenty of Ndudi Ebis and other players whose names you can’t pronounce. I haven’t hit my “dream” pulls from MLB boxes yet (autos of Mac, McGwire, or Palmeiro), but I get excited even if I pull a simple base card of these players. I treat ripping wax like my trips to Vegas- I spend only the amount of $ I can afford to “lose”, I’ll have a great time (w/o any regrets) regardless of if/how much I “lose”, and then I’ll go on about my “everyday” life. Personally, it makes my “ripping” experience much less stressful- and more enjoyable than simply buying a card that’s already slabbed (though I enjoy drooling over PSA holders as much as anyone, it’s just not the same as “touching” the card to me).
Kevin might seem negative at times, but he knows the modern market inside and out. and he's right about the pathetic returns on UD products (or newer stuff in general)
Unfortunately, I see a lot of the same things that JoeStalin sees as this hobby changes. I have no problem with him speaking out on these issues.
I did get into it with Jason early on about Delmon Young and Rickie Weeks, but hey, no skin off my back. I expressed my opinion on these players and he took that personal. No biggie. I see these guys as players who I enjoy watching on T.V, not idols or role models that I would defend in a heated arguement. I do have a favorite player, Barry Bonds, but that is strictly based on his career achievements, not his personality.
Everyone on these boards has the right to express THEIR OWN opinion. I actually enjoy reading them. If I disagree with someone's opinion on a specific topic that interests me, I will voice my opinion. That simple. I am here to talk cards and the card hobby. I will either praise it or bash it when it comes to different issues in this forum. That doesn't make me, or anyone who does the same thing, a bad person. I'm not going to sink to the level of some and start getting personal unless someone else initiates it. I like to fight fire with fire sometimes.
Anyway, we have a great group of guys ( maybe girls ) on this board who love to talk sports/cards/memorabilia, etc.. and I have no problem getting along with that. That's why I am here. I look forward to posts from many different people.
If I am having a bad day, and I am looking to vent out on someone, I may just decide to disagree with Joe Stalin for the sake of an arguement. If I want some good 'ol fashioned hobby talk and well spoken advice, I will look out for GoodRiddance or Deutschergeist. If i ever feel like I am the smartest man alive, I will read one BeachBum's well written, laid back, have a smoke and a beer, posts.
These are just a few of the guys that make the boards fun. And I know that I may only have 180+ posts, but trust me, I have been around for awhile.
As for my personal opinions of this post - Stalin is right about Upper Deck and their garbage products. Maybe it is just because I can't afford to pi$$ away $100 a pack for what turns out to be a Gary Carter Auto/300. That flat out sucks. They are freakin' millionaires because of some of the people on these boards who enjoy "the gamble" involved with high priced pack busting. And let's be honest folks, that is exactly what thes card companies have turned many COLLECTORS into. A gambler. Little kids spending all of their allowance on one expensive pack and then fingering through it quickly for the insert. The rest of the cards end up in a cigarette trash can or given back to the guy who sold them the pack.
As for the "World Series" patches on these newer cards, they are the biggest fraud I have ever seen next to Milli Vanilli. They aren't even game worn like Stalin says. They are fake pieces of material thrown together on a veteran card that is serial numbered. What a scam. It's basically just a veteran card that is serial numbered. Out of 300? That's like being numbered out of 1,000 a few years ago. 300 copies is a "high printed insert". How many Dimaggios or Seavers can there possibly be that are serial numbered? It's gotten out of control.
As far as dealers taking a stance, I would have to disagree on that. It's supply and demand. If I owned a store and could buy stuff for $1,000 a case and then sell it for $1,500, I wouldn't be complaining. As long as I had customers buying the junk who are sincerely happy, I would have to keep ordering it. IT'S ACTUALLY THE COLLECTORS THAT NEED TO STOP BUYING THE HIGH PRICED JUNK. WE NEED TO DRAW THE LINE AT SOME POINT ALSO. I know I have.
One more thing ( I promise ). I am quite sure that Barry Bonds hit over 40 home runs the year after he hit the 73. I didn't quote it, but Joe Stalin said "73 one year, and not even 40 the next?" I am almost positive that statement was false. I'm going to guess 46 or so before I actually look it up. Just keep in mind one thing. The following year a lot of pitchers adjusted to him so they didn't look like fools, and he did draw a ton of walks. he wasn't as selective the year after the 73 because he may have felt he had to prove something. That may have been a few more outs....
Thanks for all of your time!
TheRoach
That last one almost extended into another zip code! Seriously, when I first started Beach and I had a discussion about stating your opinion. The opinions of everyone here, Kevin, Jason, etc., should always be welcome and respected. I think being yourself is important and I, for one, would be happy to meet you guys at a show. I read this carefully, and the passion for what you are doing comes through - I am not patronizing when I say that I don't think that Joe is really bored or is he apathetic - if things get slow, he'll probably be the spark to get things going. Makes ya think! That's my 2 cents worth - your friend,
Mike
I was on these boards before I opened the shop and still remember the good days when we did try to help one another (the Zardoz, BOTN, CrazySol days), and I have no plans of leaving at the time being, but I'm not going to happily sit around and have my integrity attacked by people who don't know me.
I'm now accused of ripping people off by carrying products that they willingly choose to hand me money for, and I've literally tried to help out my customers by not carrying the products I felt would be absolute garbage (ie. most Fleer stuff and Topps Jersey Edition, didn't bring in Yankee Signature until the cost came down about 40%).
I feel that opening products is still fun, and even on bad boxes I almost always at least break even with my $1 box and then half-offing the mid range jerseys/AUTO's and then putting anything solid on ebay. I actually chose to go with Upper Deck direct months before getting in with Topps and Playoff. It's funny how you guys say there are so many terrible boxes, but how many have you opened lately? I open one box of about 1:4 products that come in for fun and to check it out. I do pretty well and I know most of my customers do pretty well, so if you think you know more than me about these products despite me working with them an average of 70 hours per week, then that's your mistake, sorry.
Our current ebay auctions, and of course BaseBallCardHeaven.com
Jason just some friendly advice if you are just a card shop? try carrying some college products. Im in a different area from you but the stuff flies off my shelves and my website. my site is www.gamedaylegends.com (actually im partners in the website) if you want to see the stuff i carry. plus i sign my customers that come in my store to my fantasy sports site. any way check it out and i can help you locate these products if you dont already know.
joestalin is not negative towards all modern issues...he has said many positive things about 2003 DLP and also a few of the recent Topps Heritage and Bowman Draft products...
simply b/c pack prices have risen doesn't mean the basic point of opening them should change. i have set my own $ limit on what packs/boxes i'll buy. for instance, i didn't buy prime cuts b/c boxes were selling @ $200/box for 4 cards- a price i thought was too high- and also, i personally didn't think the design of the non-auto'ed/patch cards was that nice (not worth $50/card). since i only collect a few players, the odds of me pulling autos of them were/are slim to none. thus, i bought the auto'ed prime cuts cards i desired (maddux and palmeiro) on ebay for less than what 1 pack would've cost.
i enjoy the experience a "live" card shop provides, but find the prices on boxes are much higher than ebay (i.e., I can/did get a new hobby box of SPX BKB for $70-80; my local shops were selling it for $150). since i buy a box of nearly every MLB and NBA product, i've chosen to order them off ebay. some dealers sell them for very reasonable prices- prices that usually fall even more if you wait a bit after the initial "hype" of the new product slows down. i've had some of my best pulls from these ebay dealers and always get quality service. there's also a local shop that gives me discounts of $5-15/box. the benefit of going to this "live" shop is that the dealer knows that maddux, mcgwire and palmeiro are some of my favorite players- and he often sets their rcs/other cards aside/gives them to me for free/a great discount. few (if any) ebay dealers can/would do the same.
If I was going to buy one box a year - has to be a Topps product - which one would I buy? This is not necessarily for an investment purpose, rather a product that will hold up and provide enjoyment, some rookies, good card looks, maybe autos, no chase cards, etc
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
are lottery players. I guess if you broke it down there probably aren't any products that
even deliver half your money back on a consistant basis. There used to be a magazine called
fair value, Im not sure if they are still in print but they would analyse products BEFORE they
hit and would tell you if they were worth it. It was nice having the facts on the products
right there in front of you BEFORE you even had to order it. The sell sheets that dealers
get now are weak to say the least, and many dealers don't share them with customers. Many
collectors assoicate a certain brand with a solid delivery..fleer greats, SPA, Contenders, Bowman
Chrome...but the truth is, companies are using those past sucesses to water down products.
Fleer Great was perhaps Fleer's greates acheivment in years, but it came to an end during their
No'autograph" year of 2002. Contenders screwed the customer in 2000 by issuing a bunch of
rookie tickets of european players. SPA football hasn't been strong since 2001. SPx used to
be great but now is just fluff and high prices.
I guess that is why I like topps heritage so much. for half the price of most products, you can
get a chase set, and on occasion you might pull and autograph. There are also numbered
paralells and just enough rookies to make you sit up and take notice. There are always
people looking for the short prints and at about 15 per box you know you will always
have trade bait.
I will honestly say the happiest I have been as far as collecting is being on my back porch
flipping threw my heritage albums reading where all the ball player are from or when they
were born....something I almost never do.
Thanks to rainman for reminding us all how we started this hobby! If you all excuse me Im going
to read some card backs!
JS
What do you think of Bowman heritage? I bought a few retail boxes at Target (couldn't resist) and pulled 2 Rich Harden and 1 Brian Finch auto.
Mike
Rainman-
I am actively collecting a master set of 2003 Bowman Heritage. In the next week....I will have a bunch of cards to trade...let me know if you are interested.
Im colleting the base set, the rainbow set, the box topper set, the autograph set, and the 300 card black signature parallel set.
John