The PSA 7 Common, Failure or Underappreciated?

scottsusor

One of the things I've started wondering about in my admittedly short time in the PSA world is this. What's the deal with common cards graded PSA 7? It appears that many collectors (and investors as well, I guess) pretty much turn their collective noses up at the prospect of collecting and/or investing in common cards graded PSA 7. Its almost like -- if it isn't PSA 8 or 9 or 10, then it isn't worth having.

This is good and bad. I mean, heck, a PSA 7 card is pretty nice. Near mint isn't exactly horse doo-doo in terms of vintage cards (i.e. pre-1975 or so), at least in raw form. So, why is there such a huge common card value variation in value between the 7 and the 8? This is great for those who will accept a PSA 7 as an ownable/collectable grade -- bargains galore. But its horrible for those who take the risk in submitting cards for grading with the idea that they might make a little money on their submissions. If it comes back an 8 or higher, it has value. If it comes back 7 you will probably lose money on every card or break even at best.

Will a time come when low pop commons in PSA 7 will be appreciated? Or will they forever be the ugly stepchild of the industry? Explanations? Conjectures? Opinions?

Scott

carew4me

Depends on what you collect.

The earlier you go, the more value PSA 7 has.
Anything after 1970, PSA 7 is virtually worthless from an investment point, unless there are other factors (SP, rarity, HI# etc)

spacktrack

I don't mind 7s for the most part. They are by definition NM cards and can look quite attractive. I don't always know the difference between a 7 and an 8, so I don't always perceive a difference visually. Plus, they can be cheaper and for some sets, more economical.

PS: Sent you a PM some time earlier, don't know if you got it or not.

spacktrack

1420sports

To call a PSA 7 underappreciated is a stretch, but I do see your point. I am collecting the 1967 Topps set, and the bulk of my set thus far are in PSA 7 holders. Upon completion, I will have a NM or better complete set. I am looking to get the HOF and star players in PSA 8, and the rest in PSA 7. By definition, they are Near Mint so they are good looking cards. The PSA 7's are affordable and more importantly, still present well for me. When a PSA 7 can be had for $5.00 or a PSA 8 for $20, I would much rather have 4 PSA 7's. The same holds true for PSA 8 when looking at a PSA 9.

onegaucho

Fine by me in terms of the 'perception' that's out there that a PSA 7 is much less valued than a PSA 8. Almost put together an entire set of 1950 Bowman baseballs in PSA 7. Not too tough to do aside from several low pop commons. Later on, I nearly put together a set of 1950 Bowman Football in PSA 8s. It was a lot easier selling those and I also realized a larger profit.

In the past few years I've collected and then sold several sets. I've realized in the past few months that I'm a 'collector' at heart (see other post regarding this topic).

Now I just collect stuff I think I'm gonna keep for a long time... ie, the 2 sets I've listed below in my signature.

Coucher73

I'm collecting the 73 Topps set in PSA 7 or better. While I'm happy to pick up PSA 8 commons for $6 or $7, I'm even more happy to pick up PSA 7's for $2.00. From my standpoint, I think of the PSA 7 as "The Collector's Card" while a PSA 8 or better is a "Collector's/Investor's Card." The '73 set I'm building is not going to be sold, so I'm not too concerned about resale value. I'm only concerned about having a nice set to display... and as far as I'm concerned, PSA 7's are beautiful.

ZodiacMindwarp

Scott,

The only PSA set I collect is 1969 so I can only share my opinion of 1969 7s. It appears that the 7 is caught in a vicious "catch-22". Because they can be frequently had at or below the cost of grading, collectors seem to avoid them because if the cards need to be sold in the future, there would be a limited market for them.

As a collector on a budget, I will buy 1969 7s all day long for less than the cost of grading. I frequently get them on e-bay for $2 to $5. I still think a card that is deemed Near Mint by PSA standars is a nice card.

The problem I have is actually finding 7s for my set. Believe it or not, commons don't come up very often on e-bay. This may because the shipping generally meets or exceeds the cost of the card. Some that do come up do not sell because they are priced too high.

AlanAllen

For me, a 7 just usually has too many flaws for me to look at the card and think "now that's a card I'm proud to have in my collection." If the corners are sharp, the centering sucks. Or there are print marks. Or it's out of focus. An 8 can look mint with the naked eye, 7's rarely do. Therefore I will generally only buy 7's if the 8+ pop is extremely low, like single digits. Based on the steep "shoulder" prices seem to hit at 8 and up, most collectors agree with me.

Joe

Lothar52

7's?? heck that a luxury for me...im collecting 1956 topps....and i usually go for 6's cause i can get them for under 20. 6's look great....7's look just a bit better...i believe as time goes by and more people collect graded sets psa 7's will rise in value definitely for the 50's..surely for the 60's...and likely for the 70's. 80's.....i dont know...i cant see anybody paying for a psa 7 common for the 80s and i wonder in my lifetime if people will ever do sets from the 90's and beyond.

Loth

qmayer

<< <i>The earlier you go, the more value PSA 7 has.
Anything after 1970, PSA 7 is virtually worthless from an investment point, unless there are other factors (SP, rarity, HI# etc) >>



Expanding on what carew said, the newer the card, the less valuable PSA 7s are. I attribute this to the simple fact newer cards are easier to find in 8, 9, and 10 condition. My main area of interest is in Nolan Ryans, so I will use him as an example. 1970s Topps of Ryan in 7 are solid and will hold their value. 1990s Topps of Ryan in PSA 7 are considered failures because the amount of raw cards of him in this era is mind boggling... its like "If there is so much raw, why didn't you pick out a 10?" or "I could go out in my boxes of 1991 Topps and pick out 100 Ryans that would grade nice since they've been sitting untouched my box for 13 years". You can't say that for older cards.

Justin

scottsusor

Great comments gang! I hope I'm bringing in some food for thought and new perspective to your excellent venue here. And I am definitely learning a lot.

One thing I'd like to add here, and some of you have already recognized it. There is a finite supply of vintage cards out there. Yeh, I know, there will always be those "special finds" of unopened material but as time goes on, that will dry up more and more. Could it be that collectors/investors are missing out on an opportunity here in PSA 7's at such bargain prices? If graded card interest continues to grow at its current pace, a vintage 1960's PSA 7 complete set (or PSA 6 for the 1950's) would loom large in value a few years down the road, would it not?

Scott

onegaucho

Hey Coucher73, I've got a ton of 73s still waiting to be graded. Shoot me an email. If I get any 7s in my submissions (cross my fingers though, I've submitted 20 from my set so far and so far, 8s and 9s only) I can shoot them over to ya cheap!

Email me if you're interested: onegaucho@hotmail.com
(I tried to PM you but it said you didn't accept them)

VintageVikes

I agree with Carew. Depends on what you collect. I've decided to put one set of vintage football together in all 7's mostly because of being affordable. All others in 8's, 9's and 10's. Good topic Scott.

Mefer

I am crazy enough to try and put together a PSA graded 1971 Topps baseball set. My goal is to get a set in PSA 7 or better quality. It is my personal opinion that 7s from this set are still great value. 8s and higher are extremely tough due to the nasty borders. Accordingly, I look at a 7 card from this year as comparable what would be an 8 in most other years. Many cards get 7s just because there is a tad bit of too much white on one corner; these cards to my eye remain visually appealing despite the 7 grade. While I am doing the set 99% for fun and enjoyment, I am confident that a set graded PSA 7 or better from 71 Topps would have strong value due to the condition sensitivity.

BugOnTheRug

I'll take graded 6's and 7's that are centered (1970-74), pop them out and add to my raw collections. Can't beat the price and since I can't afford to do multiple graded sets, I'll just flip through the raw sets at home during a baseball game. Even with 6-7's, a bindered set in this vintage/condition is sure to woo the neighbors and it's cost effective too.
BOTR

toppsgun

As the 8's and 9's dry up (and they will/are already, except for Top of the Registry guys busting up their sets), 7's will become more valuable as the years go by. They are good value now and will hold their value unless 8's and 9's flood the market.

Patience is a virtue in card collecting that most of us don't have enough of.

I enjoy submitting nice cards and while 8's are great, 7's are a little piece of heaven. Acowa showed several months ago how nice a 1964 card looks if it's a 50/50 PSA 7. That year has square photos and blocked letters. A centered, full colored 7 with maybe a tiny corner bend makes for a sweet presentation. I like my '61 set for similar reasons in predominately 7's.

1954

If you are talking about a PSA 7 #7 card from 1974, yes it is worthless. If you are talking about a PSA 7 #10 from the 1971 Topps greatest moments set that books for $45 and JUST sold for $875. Different story. The product makes the difference. I would love to have a complete set of 1948 Leaf in all PSA 7's.

1954

onegaucho

Toppsgun makes a great point.. as 8s and 9s dry up, 7s will be tough to come by.

Also, if PSA were to somehow tank in the future- I've got a bunch of 7s that present much better than most 8s. I picked up a gorgeous 55 Topps Koufax PSA 7 RC for over $100 off SMR last month and it's centered 50/50. 3 sharp corner with just 1 with a 'touch' on it to drop it to 7 status.

Collecting HOFers in PSA 7, esp. ones pre-76 can be a good investment, if you're willing to hold onto them for a while.

AlanAllen

I should mention that the lone T206 card I own is a PSA 6, and it looks "high end." I honestly can't see most post-war sets ever gaining wide acceptance in PSA 7 or below, though. There are some obvious exceptions (most have been pointed out in this post). Who here would not LOVE a 1952 Topps PSA 7 set?

Joe

NickM

Alan - I would say that 7 is considered an investment grade in every pre-1960 major set (and especially in all pre-1957 Topps). My standard here for investment purposes is that the Beckett raw NM price plus a grading fee is less than a PSA 7 card sells for in most cases.

Nick

AlanAllen

Nick,
That could be, I don't follow baseball nearly as closely as football. In football, the only post-war sets I'd seriously consider in less than PSA 8 are '48 and '49 Leaf and '50 Topps Felt Backs.

Joe

SKINSFAN

allan for the most part i agree with you on football i would also include 55 aa,s the have gone up about 100% in psa 7 grade over the last couple years,but for thay matter all aa,s have gone up at least that.

jaybyrd

I am Mr. PSA 7 for vintage star cards. Anything before 1974 I love to buy 7's. They don't cost much more than a 'raw' card and you have the assurance of the card being graded. I have many 63's baseball star cards that are all 7's which are high end and if you can sometimes deal with a 65/35 centering you can get a card that has very sharp corners, great coloring and sharp focus.

Eights and nines are out of my price range and when it so hard to tell the difference between a seven and an eight visually what's the big deal unless you are only buying for investment purposes.

The 1967 set I am working on has a number of 7's which did not cost more than a near mint card which I have cracked out and put in my album.

So I guess from a buyers prospective they are great !! Not so great from someone wanting to profit from grading a card.

pc

psa 7s that are centered can be terrific!.
from an investment perspective pre war
psa 7s with pops of less than 3 especially with
none higher and not o/c are often worth
many more times mint star cards from the 60s.
psa 7s also come with a heckuva lot less
buyer's remorse.

RG58

I collect 1958 topps. PSA 6 cards go from 4-8$, PSA 7 commons on ebay go for 10-20$ while psa 8 commons go from 30$- $2000 (two thousand!)

No way am I spending 75,000-100,000$ putting together this set in PSA 8. Only a few people in the world have the cash to venture into an endeavour so expensive.

I believe that more people will start collecting this set in PSA holders. As more "realistic, average" collectors get involved with Ebay and the set registry in the next 5 years, PSA 7s will go up in price.

Many of my PSA 7s look better than PSA 8's anyway! In fact, a well-centered PSA 7 almost always has better eye-appeal than a PSA 8 centered 60-40 or worse (in my opinion)

PSA 7s may be a bad investment in the short term (<2yrs). But with time these cards will become valuable. The average collector isn't going to spend 2000$ on an Ernie Johnson PSA 8 with a population of 8.

purelyPSA

7s are great cards for those of us who can't drop thousands on a set. You can pick up 7s back into the late '50s for about grading. One aspect not pointed out here is the price of 7s are very stable - if you pay 6 bucks for a PSA 7, you can probably get the same 6 bucks back if you sell it in a year or two. Since there's not much upside in common PSA 7s they seem to be frowned upon, but how can you get screwed buying a card graded in 7 when it costs less than your lunch? I think they're great for entry level collectors, of which I consider myself to be one at this point.

CW

<< <i> So, why is there such a huge common card value variation in value between the 7 and the 8? >>



I think that the reason you see such a big difference it because the
"PSA 8 only" collectors are a different breed. I can only speak from
experience within one vintage set, '55 Topps All-American. It seems
that the collectors that can pursue (and afford) a NM-MT or better
vintage set are also the collectors that many times have insane amount
of money at their disposal. In a bidding environment like ebay, this
leads to insane prices. I've seen some crazy prices paid for PSA 7
graded cards within the '55 AA set when two bidders really want a card,
and I am more than happy to add a NM card to my set.

Great thread & great replies from everyone, btw!



<< <i>Will a time come when low pop commons in PSA 7 will be appreciated? Or will they forever be the ugly stepchild of the industry? Explanations? Conjectures? Opinions?

Scott >>


I think that, as other have already mentioned, the further back you go,
the more you find an appreciation for PSA 7's. For example, the '34
Goudey PSA 7 crowd can be brutal, so I hear. Not as brutal as the
Popes of Hell (RIDE ON!!!), but brutal nonetheless.

Fabfrank

Great thread Scott. I'll echo some of the sentiments posted. It definitely depends on the set and age is a big factor. Modern 7's (1980- and newer) are worthless as far as commons and minor stars go, but major RC's (81 Montana, 86 Rice, etc.) have value at about the same as a raw card.
I basically look at 7's in this manner. For most sets, people submit their cards hoping for an 8 or better. The majority of 7's were someones idea of an 8. When looked at this way, 7's are a steal.

koby

7s are ok for cards prior to 1970. After 1970, you might as well bust them out of the holder and sell them raw.

I think well-centered 7s oftentimes look fine, but there are very few people building modern sets aiming for 7 averages.

GoSoxBoSox

For some of the hockey Hall of Famers I'm happy if I can find a PSA 1. But I agree with your point for "some cards" from the 1950's on up.

In most of those cases it's just a matter of supply and demand. People tend to value and pursue cards a bit harder to find. It's "the chase"....it's the "mine's better than yours". If 7's are readily available it's just too damn easy.